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The Guerena Shooting: Initial Analysis
The Confederate Yankee ^ | 28 May, 2011 | MikeM

Posted on 06/01/2011 6:18:44 AM PDT by marktwain

click here to read article


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To: marktwain

Keystone Kops playing Storm Troopers.


21 posted on 06/01/2011 7:01:35 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Hawk)
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To: marktwain
I am skeptical of the claim that Guerena was pointing a rifle at them, the cops were wrong about being shot at, they could just as easily been wrong about what the victim was doing.

I don't necessarily buy the idea that the wife saw her husband with a rifle before he was killed, if you look at the context where it is claimed she said that, there were other statements that prevent one from determining that’s just what she was saying.

The slimy lawyer's attempt to smear the guy “a piece of a law enforcement uniform” shows he thinks if he can manufacture enough stink that people will lose attention. Now they are telling us because once he was arrested but not charged, that's more evidence he was supposedly involved in illegal activity.

There are many other holes and problems with the police story.

22 posted on 06/01/2011 7:04:10 AM PDT by Fido969
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To: MrB
They didn't pick up Guerena on his way to or from his 12 hour copper mine shifts because they don't get to seize any loot that way.

Police/SWAT home invasions are about stealing money and property from the peasants for the police department.

23 posted on 06/01/2011 7:07:38 AM PDT by kiryandil
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To: marktwain

thank you, for finding this article, and posting it.

i’ve been following this from the very beginning,
yet there were many things here, i had not heard before.

...and the 7 seconds from knock to kick, is not was reported elsewhere, but i would trust the author here.

and the point about the contrast between the bright sunlight, and the relative darkness of the interior of the house... there is no way they could have seen that he was pointing a rifle at him.
(aside from the fact, that the wife says he only had a “small gun”, the pistol, and she only saw the “big gun” when SWAT placed it next to her husband.)


24 posted on 06/01/2011 7:09:35 AM PDT by Elendur (the hope and change i need: Sarah / Colonel West in 2012)
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To: kiryandil

This stuff has to stop. It has to be cleaned up. And there IS a way to do it.

Return to local control under the county sheriff, and elect one that isn’t corrupt, and kick out those who are, like Dupnik.

If you can’t get a corrupt sheriff kicked out of your county, you just might have to move. The good people will move out and the corrupt will move in until the whole county collapses.


25 posted on 06/01/2011 7:10:09 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: RedStateRocker

I’m in total agreement. 2-3 uniforms could have knocked on the door and said “We have a search warrant for your home” It would likely have been no big deal and nobody would have gotten hurt. They had to know there was only 1 man, 1 woman and 1 child.

We had the DEA watching the house next door for months. Finally one Day 5 cop cars pulled yp and they went up to the front door and the next thing you know they were all over searching the place. No problems. I guess they didn’t find anything siginificant because nobody got taken away.

This escalating use of SWAT teams and no knock warrants is disturbing and my belief is that its practice for martial law and door to door gun confiscation.


26 posted on 06/01/2011 7:12:27 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: RedStateRocker

waiting for someone to justify the war on drugs in 3....2....1...


27 posted on 06/01/2011 7:12:57 AM PDT by joe fonebone (Project Gunwalker, this will make watergate look like the warm up band......)
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To: misterrob
What this ultimately points to is a badly managed department that sent an unqualified “team” in to execute a dubious warrant and that is now scrambling to cover their asses.

That is pretty much my assessment as well. I am holding off judgment on the warrant, but the fact that they have sealed it is indication that it is dubious.

28 posted on 06/01/2011 7:18:28 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

This analysis proves my assertion that as America races to become a third world nation our SWAT teams are turning into death squads for the masses.


29 posted on 06/01/2011 7:20:14 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: marktwain

Good post.


30 posted on 06/01/2011 7:23:07 AM PDT by Hotmetal (Some people........)
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To: freejohn

At FR, we post the whole thing if at all possible. Stuff has a way of disappearing on the internet.


31 posted on 06/01/2011 7:26:56 AM PDT by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: RedStateRocker
This is an amazing bit of foolishness. It is hard enough to clearly hear radio traffic and voices in fast moving, stressful situations. Adding extraneous music is incredibly stupid and dangerous.

I have zero experience with this type of stuff. I spent my years in the military doing logistics and aircraft maintenance. I have been in some stressful situations, though, and I cannot imagine playing music during them.

32 posted on 06/01/2011 7:31:28 AM PDT by TankerKC (I feel 271 degrees out of sync today, which isn't half bad.)
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To: kiryandil

“They didn’t pick up Guerena on his way to or from his 12 hour copper mine shifts because they don’t get to seize any loot that way.”

You hit the mark with that comment. Lets not forget the boys get to play with the toys aspect. This is similar to the Branch Davidian raid by ATF, Koresh could have been taken any time they wanted without the fight. They wanted the fight.


33 posted on 06/01/2011 7:37:33 AM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (Oligarchy...My theory is, college student body presidents become DEMS or RINO's.)
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To: marktwain

A comment from below the article:

“Ex-LEO here, and one who served a full career from 1973 through 2003, encompassing the old “hat Squad” days to the present tactics.

Without going into a lengthy history, here’s what needs to be done. Anytime more than four officers go to a scene where they are going to use dynamic entry, and weapons other than sidearms are carried, the legal standard should REQUIRE a firm plan for force projection, and a complete AAR done IMMEDIATELY afterwards to detail how the plan was used, what force was used, etc.

If the PeeDees knew that EVERY time they used a SWAT dynamic entry, their ENTIRE deployment, from request through mop-up, was going to be a matter of IMMEDIATE public release, then I’m betting that SWAT wouldn’t be used one tenth as much as it is now.

For the record, in the Portland OR metro area, there are more SWAT call-outs in a normal week than there used to be in an entire year.

The police are NOT the military. They all ought to lose the Tommy Tactical uniforms with black-out insignia and go back to their traditional uniforms, their traditional car paint schemes, etc.

Any Officer or Deputy who wants to be Tommy Tactical should be given forms to apply for a Military Leave of Absence, and directed to the nearest recruiting station.

BTW, when I first swore in, the idea was “protect and serve, even if you had to lay down your life doing it” Today’s idea is “whatever you do, you go home to Mama when the shift is over” That incomprehensible change is what has driven all this SWAT over-use and most of the rest of the Tommy Tactical crap, because the public must never be allowed to get the idea that the cops won’t ever CONFRONT a danger situation with the odds not on their side.

BTW2, the usual way to serve a dangerous warrant in 1973 was one or two detectives, and MAYBE one patrol officer. We used our BRAINS to get the better of the bad guys then, not our boots and machine-guns.

Posted by: Rivrdog at May 31, 2011 04:41 PM”


34 posted on 06/01/2011 7:44:31 AM PDT by TankerKC (I feel 271 degrees out of sync today, which isn't half bad.)
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To: freejohn; SuzyQue

freejohn, you obviously have not met humblegunner and the blog squad. If it is a blog and not posted as whole article the blast the poster.


35 posted on 06/01/2011 7:45:42 AM PDT by Ratman83
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To: TankerKC

What would you think of requiring helmet cams on every SWAT deployment, and making those videos public? I think that in this digital age, that is where we are heading.


36 posted on 06/01/2011 8:03:45 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain; freejohn; Drumbo

Frustrating read - an opinion based on the unnecessary, idiotic circumstances of that Marine’s death, not the length of the article. Thank you for posting the whole shebang, marktwain.

It must be amusing to get schooled on FR netiquette by a noob who’s too lazy to scroll past a long article, yet too stoopit to maintain silence regarding same.


37 posted on 06/01/2011 8:05:53 AM PDT by Titan Magroyne (What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

The lawyer for the SWAT team, admits that IF he had just let them into the house he would NOT have been arrested!

Hello?? At what point did he have time to let them into the house?


38 posted on 06/01/2011 8:08:50 AM PDT by panthermom (Pray for my son in Aghanistan and all the troops!)
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To: freejohn
When you have an article that could have been published in bound volume form .. proper etiquette would suggest that You Don’t publish it .. in it’s entirety in a Forum Format.

Except that one of the purposes of this site is, whenever possible, to archive articles in their entirety for posterity.

The reason is that news articles have been known to be altered or deleted from the source web sites.

39 posted on 06/01/2011 8:22:25 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Governement should be afraid of the people)
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To: marktwain

Thanks for the post - a clear and thoughtful explanation. And no, it’s not too long.


40 posted on 06/01/2011 8:34:59 AM PDT by jimt
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