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To: BenKenobi
Maybe I’m unusual, but nullification is an essential part of a federal system.

Whether you are "unusual" is up to you and your therapist but you are way off course and barking up the wrong tree with this fanciful "nullification" nonsense. It went down the drain in the 1830's.

20 posted on 02/03/2011 9:46:09 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard
It went down the drain in the 1830's.

How so?

22 posted on 02/03/2011 9:53:33 PM PST by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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To: hinckley buzzard
Just curious buzz, but do you have a personal dislike for the concept of nullification??? FYI from the 10th Amendment Center:

Tenth Amendment FAQ


Tenth Amendment

Q1: What does the Tenth Amendment Say?

A1: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

Q2: What does the Tenth Amendment Mean?

A2: This amendment is a rule of construction. It tells us how to interpret the remainder of the Constitution. Namely, any power which is not granted to the federal government in the constitution may only be executed by the states or by the people.

Nullification Questions

Q3: How can you support nullification when the supremacy clause says that the federal government is supreme?

A3: The supremacy clause doesn’t say that! Clause 2 of Article 6, known as the supremacy clause, says,

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

As it pertains to nullification, the key section of that clause is the phrase, “in Pursuance thereof;”. Laws of the United states which shall be made in Pursuance of the Constitution shall be the supreme law of the land. Further, Judges in every state are bound by the Constitution. When someone tells you that an unconstitutional law is supreme because of the supremacy clause, they are mistaken. The supremacy clause makes the Tenth Amendment supreme over laws not made in pursuance of the Constitution.

Q4: How can you support nullification when nullification was used to support slavery?  Is this because we have our first black President?  This is just stealth racism, right?

A4: No. We’re not racist.   The Tenth Amendment Center was founded in 2006, when we did not yet have a black President.  In fact, nullification was used by the northern states to resist slavery (see here ).   The Tenth Amendment is important because our Constitutional system is currently out of balance.  In addition to the judicial, executive and legislative branches of government checking each other, the ratifiers of the Constitution also expected the state and federal governments to serve as checks against each other.  As James Madison wrote, in Federalist 51,

First. In a single republic, all the power surrendered by the people is submitted to the administration of a single government; and the usurpations are guarded against by a division of the government into distinct and separate departments. In the compound republic of America, the power surrendered by the people is first divided between two distinct governments, and then the portion allotted to each subdivided among distinct and separate departments. Hence a double security arises to the rights of the people. The different governments will control each other, at the same time that each will be controlled by itself.

Because the states have not been performing this job, Madison’s double security is not functioning to protect us.  There can only be one end to a path of unlimited centralization of power.

Q5: Don’t you know that nullification will lead to chaos? We’ll have a patchwork of laws!

A5: No, and yes. Nullification actually leads to stability. There isn’t really a short answer to this one, but see here and here. If the states choose to nullify, this introduces a competitive market into the interpretation of law. The laws which survive will be the ones that most states and the Supreme Court all agree are Constitutional.

A patchwork of laws is a good thing, not a bad one.  One size rarely fits all.  What is good law for Pennsylvanians may be bad law for Californians, or Iowans.  Carry the standardization of laws to its logical extreme and what do you get?  One law for the entire world.  At any time, we’re moving towards liberty or away from it.  Nullification moves us towards freedom.

Q6: The Supreme Court decide which laws are Unconstitutional. How can you propose to nullify a law which hasn’t been vetted by the Supreme Court?

A6 Yes, the Supreme Court does decide which laws are Unconstitutional. And so should the Congress and the President and each and every one of the states. Article I, Section X of the Constitution lists the powers which are prohibited to the states,

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it’s inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

As you can see, interpreting the Constitution is not among the prohibited powers.

Q7: That question was answered by the Civil War, wasn’t it?

A7 You can’t answer a question of conscience through the use of force. Yes, an earlier generation of Americans fought a brutal war (in part) over slavery. The only question that answered was whether the north or the south had the larger military capacity and resolve. If you want to be technical, the nullifiers from the north actually won that war, but that still doesn’t prove anything. The reason nullification is just and correct is that our Constitution was designed with the idea in mind that the state and federal governments would provide a double-security for our liberties. Without nullification, our system is out of balance and our liberties are unprotected.   This simple truth is unaffected by the results of the Civil War.

Thoughts?
25 posted on 02/03/2011 10:09:13 PM PST by ForGod'sSake (You have only two choices: SUBMIT or RESIST with everything you've got!!!)
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