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2003 Supreme Court: For 200 years domestic law of the US recognizes the Law of Nations(Vattel)
US Supreme Court ^ | October Term, 2003 | USSC

Posted on 11/10/2010 12:58:10 PM PST by bushpilot1

The Court affirmed Vatell's Law of Nations as a part of US Domestic law on page 37.

"For two centuries we have affirmed that the domestic law of the United States recognizes the law of nations."

They sourced the translated edition of Chitty.

"eE. de Vattel, The Law of Nations, Preliminaries §3 (J. Chitty et al. transl. and ed. 1883"

Lets have a look at the Chitty translated edition and see what it says about citizen parents and natural born citizens.

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TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: naturalborncitizen
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There is another Supreme Court case..Justice Waite.. the words law of nations in the Constitution is Vattel's Law of Nations. Do not want to get into that one..the Obots have enough on their plates.
1 posted on 11/10/2010 12:58:17 PM PST by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1

200 years ago the “law of nations” didn’t include the likes of Yemen, Zimbabwe or Myanmar.


2 posted on 11/10/2010 1:00:20 PM PST by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: bushpilot1

Brilliant!


3 posted on 11/10/2010 1:00:28 PM PST by Danae (Anail nathrach, orth' bhais's bethad, do chel denmha)
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Or Turkey, Bolivia or China.


4 posted on 11/10/2010 1:01:22 PM PST by BenLurkin (This post is not a statement of fact. It is merely a personal opinion -- or humor -- or both)
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To: bushpilot1
There has always been the hint that the Court might hear a case, if someone with "standing" were to bring it. Well, if the leadership of the House wants Obama out, they could probably file a suit, point to Vattel and say "Let's have Obama prove he is a natural born citizen, in accordance with this definition."

Can't be done. Birth certificate doesn't matter. Birthplace doesn't matter. His father wasn't a citizen. Game over -- if the Court sticks with this precedent.

5 posted on 11/10/2010 1:14:47 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: bushpilot1
This seems to clarify the situation completely, and I have not seen it before. Why has it taken so long for someone to come up with this argument?

Let me make sure that I understand this:

Since the US Constitution refers to the "Law of Nations" and the Law of Nations says that:

The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.

Therefore, even a person born in the US is not a natural-born citizen if both parents are not citizens. Therefore, the Hawaii BC is a moot argument.

Do I understand this correctly? If so, why is this not being said over and over with these links, or did I miss something?

6 posted on 11/10/2010 1:17:17 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51
Even further in Book 1, Section 19, Paragraph 211, it says:

I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.

7 posted on 11/10/2010 1:28:42 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51

Correction, para. 212, not 211.


8 posted on 11/10/2010 1:30:01 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: bushpilot1

If they were referring to Vatel’s book then wouldn’t they have capitalized “Law of Nations”?


9 posted on 11/10/2010 1:30:21 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: ClearCase_guy

I think at this point it’s better to allow him to be repudiated on his merits (lack thereof) in 2012 by the voters.

I think it’s more important for the GOP to cut the size of government than diddle around with Obama’s citizenship.

Remember, in 1994 Gingrich let the congress start in on the impeachment path and the end result was a Clinton rebound and reelection.

For once, lets just see the GOP do what they said they were going to do. The entire campaign was about cutting the size and cost of government. Not one major GOPer ran or even discussed the birther issue.

Let the states deal with the birther issue by passing clear laws that will prevent Soetero from running again unless he can pass Constitutional muster. State legislatures would do well to start defending their perogatives and the Constitution.

Any plan the relies on courts to resolve this will fail, and if it succeeded would be an unhappy precedent.


10 posted on 11/10/2010 1:46:06 PM PST by Jack Black ( Whatever is left of American patriotism is now identical with counter-revolution.)
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To: kosciusko51
That opportunity was lost when the GOP senators didn't do the basics, Article 1, Sec. 5

'Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns and qualifications of its own members'

Lets see the long form?

11 posted on 11/10/2010 1:51:34 PM PST by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: Jack Black

I agree, the GOP shouldn’t muck with this, as this is not a political battle. However, someone should, since this is a legal battle. And I think standing should be granted to any voter or group of voters, since we have a person who is not qualified occupying the office of the president.


12 posted on 11/10/2010 1:52:23 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: Non-Sequitur
If they were referring to Vatel’s book then wouldn’t they have capitalized “Law of Nations”?

They did. From Article I, section 8: "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;"

13 posted on 11/10/2010 1:52:23 PM PST by sourcery (Poor Nancy: From Speaker OF the House to...Speaker UNDER the House)
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To: bushpilot1

Politically, it would be far better for the voters to remove Obama, than for the courts to vacate him. However, threre is one big advantage to having him declared never-President by SCOTUS: Any laws he signed would be invalidated also. The best scenario would be for him to lose the next election, and then for SCOTUS to rule he never was President.


14 posted on 11/10/2010 1:55:55 PM PST by sourcery (Poor Nancy: From Speaker OF the House to...Speaker UNDER the House)
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To: Jack Black
I see it as a bargaining chip.

"Why don't you do some golfing? Go on some nice vacations? Just ... walk away from your agenda. It's our turn now. Play along, and you'll finish out your last two years in style -- Michelle will be thrilled. But, if you cause trouble, we will file the suit. And you know you'll lose."

15 posted on 11/10/2010 1:56:56 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Palter
I'm not sure I follow you. If I read Article I, Section 3, BHO may meet the qualifications for senator (i.e. a citizen) but not meet the qualifications for president.

If I understand this correctly, even the long form is moot for establishing his qualifications for president, as BHO Sr. was a foreign national at BHO Jr's birth.

16 posted on 11/10/2010 1:59:10 PM PST by kosciusko51
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To: bushpilot1

Vattel is quoted at least five times in that source.


17 posted on 11/10/2010 2:22:30 PM PST by bgill (K Parliament- how could a young man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: LucyT

Is that the sweet scent of a smoking gun that I smell?


18 posted on 11/10/2010 2:28:06 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have IngSoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: kosciusko51
If so, why is this not being said over and over with these links, or did I miss something?

We have been saying it repeatedly in these threads. But the catch is, you still need the original BC to hold up in a court of law as evidence. Just because Hussein "claims" his daddy was O. Sr., doesn't mean it's legally true. The court doesn't care about what Hussein, um, Ayers wrote in Dreams because it needs a verifiable document.

19 posted on 11/10/2010 2:30:34 PM PST by bgill (K Parliament- how could a young man born in Kenya who is not even a native American become the POTUS)
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To: bgill
I've not seen the reference to Vattel before. I've seen claims that the congress defined a natural-born person in the 1800's as Vattel has, but not a reference to Vattel, which is prior to the US Constitution.

I don't think you need the long form. You could use Obama's own forgery against him, since it still disqualifies him, and is an admission against interest by him.

20 posted on 11/10/2010 2:44:14 PM PST by kosciusko51
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