Posted on 06/26/2010 3:01:46 AM PDT by Scanian
Ever wonder why the teachers unions hate charter schools so much?
Here's one reason.
State test scores this week showed 100 percent of eighth-graders in the Harlem Village Academies achieved proficiency in science and social studies.
By contrast, in Harlem's traditional public schools, only 35 percent of eighth-graders made the grade in science, and 22 percent in social studies.
This continues a trend: New York charters -- public schools that operate free of union work rules and bureaucratic mandates -- are wildly outperforming their traditional counterparts in student test scores, graduation rates, college acceptances and other measures.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
We own the “for the children” argument.
Next time I hear “for the children” I want it to be from a conservative.
I swear we are just not vocal enough. We OWN these issues. Why have we let ourselves be trampled by a vicious, wrong, tiny minority for 50 years?
We should be honest here...charter schools are careful who they hire...get real recommendations for hirees....and generally work harder to have happy teachers. As far as I can see....charter school teachers stay and don’t leave.
But we are missing one fundamental issue here. Charter schools have real expectations, with parents backing up the deal, and there’s discipline applied on day one. A kid knows he won’t get too far in doing stupid stuff at a charter school (other than being dumped real quick).
I agree public schools have terrible problems but if you are going to use only scoring percentages to compare you have admit that taking the highest scorers away serves only to lower the averages at the public schools.
But in reverse...with a charter school having less students, the percentile that even one low scorer has on the schools average is greater. ie 1% of 1000 students is 10 kids, while 1% of 3000 students is 30.
Since I don’t see a /sarc I’m going to assume this post was legit.
Now let me ask a very direct question.
You say “Well... you surely know that only the best and brightest...”
Did you miss the part where this was a lottery? Do you understand that there were 7:1 students wanting to get into the school but only a literal number from a hat gets children in?
Public schools don’t have problems anymore. Ask the union. They have FAILED. It’s that simple. You can look at the individual kid and see bright spots but by and large the school system needs to be redone, and teachers salary need to be based on something concrete and tangible. That my friend must be test scores at least as 1 facet.
If we ran all schools similar to charter can you imagine the competition between teachers for positions? Teachers have had nearly free money in many states for far too long. Structured raises every year, incredible pensions, and benefits. It’s time to say no more. A teacher should rarely exceed the average income in an area of his/her constituents footing the bill. Just like any public worker. A teacher should also be teaching 12 months out of the year, but I digress.
The people paying the tab, the taxpayers of the school district, are not able to know exactly what they purchased. Therefore no accountability. The public has a right to know who took what class and what the result was. This will show how the teachers are doing as well as the students.
To me, the schools need to show accountability to the public, to those paying the piper. Parents and students are merely receiving a service paid for by others. It is important to keep in mind that parents do not pay School Taxes for their children. All adults, not just parents pay school taxes to support the schools.
>>(other than being dumped real quick)<<
Not in MI. Our charters are called “Public School Academies” and must take and keep every kid. Even the bad ones with bad parents. My daughter was in one. Her teacher had 42 kids in the class with about 20% Special Needs. She worked miracles, even got a kid with CP to walk without a walker (she had RA and wouldn’t baby him, the mom was thrilled). Some parents could care less too. They knew their kids were problems.
Yet our charters score higher. It’s the discipline, plain and simple.
I believe most winners in the spelling bee’s are home schooled or come from charter schools also.
I think you're confused about causation. Charter schools, private schools, and homeschooling are *producing* students with higher test scores because the students are being *taught*. Charter schools are not allowed to select high-achieving students, and although a private school might, by law, the place would probably be torched if they tried.
Probably the biggest issue teacher face is the demand that all children attend school whether they wish to attend or not.
The reason for this is systemic greed. Monies are received for each "pupil unit day" which leads to a sever reluctance to suspend or expel any student, particularly "Special Ed students" who are reimbursed at higher rates.
You can walk into any school in the country and wait for the bell to change classes and tell right away whether the principal is worth a damn or not.
No discipline tells right off.
Another example why “BIG government education” has failed....NEA recommends Saul Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’ for its’ union members.
http://www.nea.org/tools/17231.htm
The editorial can mean much more than just the NYC charter school system.
What makes a charter school so effective?
No union involvement - free market capitalism for education.
No excessive red tape imposed by bureaucrats for their job security - another element of free market capitalism.
Results based outcomes.
A feeling of being unique - 12,000 lotto tickets for a little over 2,000 desks.
A desire to be and do better.
All of the above are traits of free market capitalism.
Question; if it is so successful for a small part of our national economy what don't we apply to all segments?
Whooops - that's “hate speech” as defined by those who don't want others to think and wonder (thinking and wondering are also elements of free market capitalism).
This is truly a case where the numbers show which is better.
Im not confusing things, if you think about it kids that go to charter schools come from public schools at some point.
So you want to regulate incomes? LOL
As far as public schools go and private/charter schools go Im very informed, ie. my wife is has been a public school teacher for 15 years, my children have gone to private schools for ther entire lives.
Surely you arent dumb enough to think failing kids are trying to gain entry into a tougher school by lottery! Its a f’ing lottery for the best and brightest dimbulb.
I think your comment is not only incorrect (parents of low-achieving kids often desperately want their kids to do better), but it was also rude and unworthy of FR. If your wife conducts herself as a public school teacher, like you do on FR, then she is probably part of the problem.
True, but there's no evidence that the students who go to charter schools (or private schools) have any greater ability than those who remain in standard public schools. The difference is in what the school does with the student.
Okay Dewey... which parent of the one parent gang bangers family stands in line out there in Cali?
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