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Unrepealable? (DeMint questions about rules changes in bill requiring 2/3 vote and senate adjourns)
NRO ^ | 12/22/09 | Rober Costa

Posted on 12/22/2009 8:56:56 AM PST by cornelis

Sen. Jim DeMint (R., S.C.) has thumbed through Harry Reid's manager's amendment and discovered some "particularly troubling" rule-change provisions, especially with regards to the proposed Independent Medicare Advisory Board, which he finds could be unrepealable:


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: 111th; bhohealthcare; demint; healthcare; military; obama; obamacare; palin; ruleschange; senate; twothirds
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To: b4its2late

Yes, they will DO what they accused Chuck Colson of thinking.


51 posted on 12/22/2009 9:44:57 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Jim Robinson

Understood. But the way the bill is written, it will take a two-thrids majority to repeal it. They will pass it calling it a procedural change (60 votes to invoke cloture) and when anyone tries to repeal it, they will call it a rule change requiring two thirds vote.


52 posted on 12/22/2009 9:45:28 AM PST by kabar
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To: DAC21

i would guess you can just go ahead and do it anyway, cut off funding for the disputed part, and let whoever wants to go to court.


53 posted on 12/22/2009 9:46:32 AM PST by beebuster2000
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To: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus

I just sent him my $ www.jimdemint.com


54 posted on 12/22/2009 9:47:40 AM PST by cornelis
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To: RWGinger
" we should act before odumbo gets his new federal troops in place. he signed the order for it in late spring."

Remind me again what you are speaking of, thanks.

55 posted on 12/22/2009 9:47:43 AM PST by cookcounty (Let us not speak of the honor of men. Rather, let us bind them with the Constitution. --Jefferson)
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To: All

It seems that Mr. -21 in the polls may actually wanting such a blatant thing to take place. It would cause a revolution which would give him rights to force a police state and take full control of the country and become a tyrant forever.


56 posted on 12/22/2009 9:48:11 AM PST by klimeckg ("The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.")
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To: Arizona Carolyn

If, in fact, this clause makes permanent all or part of this bill, and if, in fact, it is unconstitutional, and since it is sure to pass, the best thing the Repubs can do is let it pass quickly. Court challenges could then tie it up for years. It is inconceivable to me that the Constitution grants authority to one Congress to forever ban the next Congress from overriding ANY LAW.


57 posted on 12/22/2009 9:48:20 AM PST by Murp (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: cornelis

Simple fix. Just have the republican’s take over the senate. Then use nuclear option (saying it’s a budget issue) and then overturn the thing.

Take the heat from it...expose our gov’t as a sham that doesn’t follow the rules and constitution anyway.


58 posted on 12/22/2009 9:49:45 AM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: cornelis

the EVIL DUMS are going back to the old play book when they tried to rig the Congress to keep slavery legal in the South.

The Dumocrats are PURE EVIL.


59 posted on 12/22/2009 9:49:52 AM PST by Marty62 (former Marty60)
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To: cornelis
OMGWTF.

To wit "this law can never be modified or repealed"?!? enacted as such with little more than "we do this all the time, now shut up"?

Resembling the buildup to this. Expect a police-action crisis soon.

60 posted on 12/22/2009 9:50:09 AM PST by ctdonath2 (It from fit.)
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To: cornelis

Kon-sty-two-shun?

That’s just a fancy word for “racist”.


61 posted on 12/22/2009 9:50:45 AM PST by Tzimisce (No thanks. We have enough government already. - The Tick)
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To: Murp

The more immediate question is whether DeMint’s move, followed by adjournment, will in any way affect Reid’s timetable. NRO is not saying — anyone have any thoughts?


62 posted on 12/22/2009 9:51:53 AM PST by mwl8787
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To: kabar

Ok, and when the next vote comes on this treachery, each Republican needs to stand up and object to the tyranny of the majority and walk out without voting.


63 posted on 12/22/2009 9:52:50 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: cornelis

Heh... So the rats have turned their fascist health care takeover into a Constitutional Amendment?
Yeah, that’ll stand...


64 posted on 12/22/2009 9:53:15 AM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: GeronL

If the Soviet Union can disband ans become Russia again, etc etc for Poland, Hungary, etc etc, we should be able to “come back” from the brink of Socialism.


65 posted on 12/22/2009 9:53:57 AM PST by noah (noah)
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To: Man50D

We keep getting screwed again & again. I have no illusion that the US Supreme Court will ever have so much as a hint of balls to overrule this legislation and RULE CHANGE as unconstitutional. WE NEED AMERICAN REVOLUTION II TO OVERTHROW THESE SOCIALIST BASTARDS & 0BOZO THE KENYAN COMMIE PIG AND TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK TO ITS CONSTIUTIONAL ROOTS & LAWS, AND TO RESTORE OUR FREEDOMS & LIBERTIES.


66 posted on 12/22/2009 9:55:21 AM PST by rcrngroup
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To: ExTexasRedhead; Man50D; holdonnow; Clintonfatigued; romanesq; justiceseeker93; ElkGroveDan; ...

[[Can we mobilize a huge team of conservative lawyers to file suit against these thugs (US Congress) as a group and individually?]]

We all need to write to Demint and ask him to both do this, and to get a group of conservatives together- those hwo still beleive i ntheir hearts that they work for US, the citizens of htis country, to formally inform those in congress who are trampling all over our constitutional rights, that they are as of now, on notice, that this WILL BE investigated, and prosecutions WILL TAKE PLACE if they don’t cease and desist in their ILLEGAL activities IMMEDIATELY.

This is a VERY serious matter that needs to be addressed immediately, and every bill and proposal that violates our constitution, our bill of rights, and any other law rule or regulation that has already been established for hte protection of our citizens agaisnt such tyranical actions, will be investigated and htose invovled in their forming will be sued for violating hteir oath to hte people of the United States- it’s time htis crap by hte left be stopped once and for all


67 posted on 12/22/2009 9:56:02 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Jim Robinson

Agree. Reps need to show more passion and anger. The survival of this nation is at stake.


68 posted on 12/22/2009 9:56:19 AM PST by kabar
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

>Vote third party because bug > windshield.

You didn’t see Men In Black, did you?

;)


69 posted on 12/22/2009 9:56:36 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: RWGinger; All

Here is a quote I heard from a soldier I may or may not know personally:

“I respect my commanding officer but I do not respect the commander in chief”.


70 posted on 12/22/2009 9:56:46 AM PST by AbeKrieger (Islam is a trojan horse designed to infiltrate and bring down Western civilization.)
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Comment #71 Removed by Moderator

To: cookcounty
Days before the Nov'08 election, Barry Obama told his adoring sycophants that they were five days away from fundamentally transforming this nation.

When you blow up the nation to build a fascist regime run by federal oligarchs, you tend to make a mess.

Sadly, too many voters are not even aware of the fascist coup because the enemey media in the alphabet cesspool are dutifully avoiding the truth.

When the shooting starts, media must be a priority for elimination because if left in place they will renerw their dilligent effort to destroy the Republic anew.

The media are the fifth column enemy within ... aiding a fascist takeover of the once great Republic.

72 posted on 12/22/2009 9:59:19 AM PST by MHGinTN (Obots, believing they cannot be deceived, it is impossible to convince them when they are deceived.)
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To: cookcounty

obama campainged on this,
“”We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set,” Obama said in July. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

In late spring the House passed a bill that set this in motion. when not being used for national emergencies ( not to be confused with the National Guard helping with floods, fires etc) this federal force would be farmed out to local police and /or US Marshalls. IIRC the initial force would be 6,000. I will try ti find the link


73 posted on 12/22/2009 9:59:40 AM PST by RWGinger
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To: cornelis
So far DeMint is the only Senator I respect.

I will agree, and add Tom Coburn to that. The list is two that I can respect. The rest can go pound sand.

74 posted on 12/22/2009 10:00:03 AM PST by Jackknife (Chuck Norris grinds his coffee with his teeth, and boils his water with his rage)
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To: cornelis

Just don’t fund it.


75 posted on 12/22/2009 10:02:01 AM PST by cowtowney
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To: RC2

File suit in Superior Court?


76 posted on 12/22/2009 10:02:40 AM PST by Mr. Lucky
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To: beebuster2000
not clear on how anything can be “unrepealable” that is set by a vote. wont a future vote just undo it?

The purpose is to give cover to future Senates who don't really want to repeal it, but need something to say to their constituents about why they can't.

77 posted on 12/22/2009 10:02:40 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: KarlInOhio

And a Democrat flipping to a Republican all on the same day....

Pass the popcorn.


78 posted on 12/22/2009 10:03:13 AM PST by Freddd (CNN is not credible.)
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To: Jim Robinson

This rule change thing is actually a HUGE deal, but I bet that not many average Joe’s out there understand it or even care to, which is a sad state our Republic is in.


79 posted on 12/22/2009 10:06:00 AM PST by b4its2late (Before you can control a horse, you have to break it. Sound familiar?)
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To: cornelis; Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; ...

The list, ping


80 posted on 12/22/2009 10:07:37 AM PST by Nachum (The complete Obama list at www.nachumlist.com)
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To: cornelis

Are they amending the Constitution?

This is pure parlimentary DICTATORSHIP.

The crooks “paper” means nothing. Nada. Zip.

Consensus is against this bill and they know it and they want to establish new extra-Constitutional bureaucratic red tape as obstacle to junking it.


81 posted on 12/22/2009 10:09:56 AM PST by a fool in paradise (Question authority!Who is the University of East Anglia to drive the 'Global Climate Change' agenda?)
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To: RWGinger
And we citizens need to form our local militia units immediately. All able bodied (and some of us not so able bodied) citizens need to be armed, supplied, and standing by.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

82 posted on 12/22/2009 10:11:09 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

[[If this bill includes a senate rules change (which it does), it would require a two thirds vote to pass. They’d never get it if the Republicans hold together.]]

But shouldn’t the fact that they are trying to push htrough something that is unconstitutional be grounds for impeachment? Only tyrants try to enforce rules that fly in the face of our ocnstitution. Ther’s no way in hell this particular proposal should even beign goign to hte floor for a vote- the fact that it was even included shows us that those hwo wrote it and support it do NOT respect our constituoin and our laws, and thus makes them unworthy to serve the people (yes, people did vote them in, however, when those hwo are voted in show that they are NOT trustworthy, and are violating our rights and rules etc, we, as a colelctive hwole, have hte responsibility to throw them out- not sure how, but htere must be some legal means whether congress wants to act or not (which apaprently they don’t- thanks RINOS! you’ve doen us swell!)

Ted Roosevelt talked about speaking softly, but carry a big stick (to enforce the rules and regulations as they stand, for the protection of everyone, and for peace to live)- but he menat only to use that stick on those who violated our rules and regulations, but now, the dems have grabbed that stick, and are beating us all over hte heads with it and using it to break our rules, and punish anyone that dares confront htem about hteir unconstituional actions.

I dunno- I just htink it’s goign to be too late come next election to reverse the damage this congress is doing because we hte peopel don’t take our constitution seruiously enough and we allow thugs like congress to walk all over our irghts and laws, and we simpyl hope that ‘next election, the people will ‘do hte right thing’ by voting out those hwo are ‘most corrupt’ and vote in ‘less corrupt’ politicians.

Perhaps it is time for a third party- one that runs on uncompromising morals, intellectual honesty, and integrity that will NOT cave in to special interests. The two parties we have now are provign a dissaster for htis coutnry, but everyone keeps right on voting for one or the other whiel hte ship sinks to the bottom of the swamp. I’m not a big third party candidate, but my goodness- the corruption on BOTH sides NEEDS to stop-


83 posted on 12/22/2009 10:11:55 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Man50D

Can they pass laws that require 2/3s majority to repeal of change them?

They so desire the Health Care Entitlement that they are willing to destroy the country to capture their long cherished dream.

I say we all enact Health Care for the Constitution and take these people OUT of office BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!

This will not stand.


84 posted on 12/22/2009 10:13:07 AM PST by R0CK3T
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To: Jim Robinson

Doesn’t the Senate need a quorum to vote? If the Repubs all walked out, would there be a quorum? I know the Democrat Senators probably don’t care about a pesky little thing like a quorum, but the Republican leadership really, really needs to do something dramatic. I’m not holding my breath, though.


85 posted on 12/22/2009 10:17:31 AM PST by nanetteclaret (Unreconstructed Catholic Texan)
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To: Jim Robinson

[[And we citizens need to form our local militia units immediately. All able bodied (and some of us not so able bodied) citizens need to be armed, supplied, and standing by. ]]

Do you htink it’s goign to come to that? Do you think the citizens have enough will to commit to that? A bunch of loosely organized militias is fine, but we’ll need a central organizing unit in order to be effective, and I’m not seeing anythign even remotely akin to htis- perhaps a thousand paper cuts (from loosely organized groups spread all over htep lace, hitting and running) can bring down giants, but again, I’m not sure hte country is ready for htis


86 posted on 12/22/2009 10:19:17 AM PST by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: Jim Robinson
If this bill includes a senate rules change (which it does), it would require a two thirds vote to pass.

Understood. So how did the chair get away with saying that it is NOT a rule change, but only a procedure change?

87 posted on 12/22/2009 10:19:29 AM PST by houeto (Free Republic will not support RINOS!! Rudy McRomney, et al, can go straight to hell!! -JR)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
If this travesty is unrepealable, then there is only one action to take.

Correct. I fear there is only one solution left. :(

88 posted on 12/22/2009 10:21:30 AM PST by Sloth (Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8)
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To: houeto
how did the chair get away with saying that it is NOT a rule change, but only a procedure change?

It starts at around age 5.

89 posted on 12/22/2009 10:21:36 AM PST by cornelis
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To: houeto

He just stated it as if it were fact. Now it’s up to the Republicans to challenge the ruling. They need to hammer it home.


90 posted on 12/22/2009 10:22:56 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: ColdOne
These people are going to use rules towards us because they know we follow them.

They nullified the rules, they can suffer the consequences.

If you happen to be a Bible reader, look up the story of Jehu. I'm sure it is there for a reason.

91 posted on 12/22/2009 10:22:56 AM PST by Eagle Eye (3%)
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult

Bug < Windsheild.

Fixed. LOL


92 posted on 12/22/2009 10:24:06 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: CottShop

The Democrat controlled house will not impeach their president.


93 posted on 12/22/2009 10:24:09 AM PST by Jim Robinson (Join the TEA Party Rebellion!! May God and TEA save the Republic!!)
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To: olrtex
If all the businesses in your area decided they would not do business with Christians, I doubt you would be saying that “Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate” discrimination based on religious principles (which it does not, of course).

I would absolutely say that, and would oppose any efforts by the Congress to force businesses to serve Christians.

94 posted on 12/22/2009 10:24:09 AM PST by Sloth (Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8)
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To: cornelis

As long as conservative’s are a group of do nothings the tyrants will continue to rule and nothing will be done to stop them.

Most know that there is but one way to stop fascist’s and only one way.

And I am not referring to calling on the phone or sending them letters.


95 posted on 12/22/2009 10:24:33 AM PST by stockpirate (Obama, 5565% disapproval rating, Rasmussen, -21)
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To: sarasota

“Fundamental changes” are only for things that one does not like.

If Obama loved the US of A then he wouldn’t seek fundamental changes.


96 posted on 12/22/2009 10:26:40 AM PST by Eagle Eye (3%)
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To: CottShop

http://alarmandmuster.com/


97 posted on 12/22/2009 10:28:16 AM PST by houeto (Free Republic will not support RINOS!! Rudy McRomney, et al, can go straight to hell!! -JR)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
If this travesty is unrepealable, then there is only one action to take.

it's high time we quit just complaining and take some ACTION ... and damn soon

98 posted on 12/22/2009 10:29:20 AM PST by TheRightGuy (I want MY BAILOUT ... a billion or two should do!)
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To: cornelis
DeMint just called, by way of reference, the dems..."a tyrannical majority" LOL

GOP staffer..."The bill changes some Senate rules to say we can't vote in a future Congress to repeal the IMAB (death panels)".

Gov. Palin needs to go on the attack on this issue of Death Panels. The left is on a tear attempting to con the public this is the biggest lie ever.

I'm sure we can come up with about 100 biggest lies ever from their side, the pool to choose from is so deep with lie, you could walk on them.
99 posted on 12/22/2009 10:31:14 AM PST by papasmurf
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To: b4its2late
That's it... exactly, plus the rest of “We The People”, you, your spouse and children, and grandma too! NEVER FORGET!
100 posted on 12/22/2009 10:37:11 AM PST by Spitzensparkin1 (UN:global-socialists against freedom in action. No taxation without representation! No UN in our US.)
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