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This thread makes me realize how painful all this still is. May's graduation is going to be rough.
Posted on 12/05/2009 7:30:32 AM PST by gusopol3
New details revealed Friday about the university's response — from the time the victims were found to when they alerted the campus of a gunman on the loose — brought angry reactions and questions from some victims' families about leadership during the massacre that ended with 33 people dead.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.aol.com ...
No comment ... or I'll be banned
Lots of Monday Morning QB going on.
This clearly was a variation of “the fog of war.” Lots of data, little reliable and the choice between causing a panic and giving a proper “heads up.”
I have been in a slightly similar situation (a jumper from the University’s tallest tower). Even with that situation it was amazing how much false information was running around and how difficult it was to get the situation assessed and proper activities started.
they called their families, they locked up their administrative offices.
before warning others
They knew what was happening but they decided not to warn the university population.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
>>they called their families, they locked up their administrative offices.
before warning others
They knew what was happening but they decided not to warn the university population.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.<<
There is a big difference between calling your family and saying “hey, I THINK so and so is happening” and issuing a formal broadcast and alert. The latter requires pretty complete verification.
Maybe it should have happened faster, but this still looks like massive hindsight to me.
FWIIW, in the situation I was describing I did, and in this situation I would have issued the alert anyway on my personal authority (with any problems on my head so be it). But that is much bolder than most administrators in most Higher Ed institutions.
IMO “higher Ed” administrators are mostly incompetent.
These kids were hiding under desks as the killer walked from person to person. Meanwhile the administrators were calling their families.
Administrators ensured all the victims were disarmed, failed to give them critical information, and failed to respond in a proper manner.
And yes, since Columbine all schools should consider this type of event in their risk plans.
>>And yes, since Columbine all schools should consider this type of event in their risk plans.<<
I can’t really argue — but, for example, even after we went through a fairly substantial Earthquake we really didn’t have an Earthquake Disaster Recovery plan (and I don’t think they do to this day).
With limited resources all planning is a risk/reward thing.
I am not defending them, but I am suggesting people look beyond simple “well, they should have done this or that.” If you haven’t been in their positions, it is difficult to understand the whys and whats.
And one of the first shooting victims was alive for three hours before she died and her parents were not notified.
I don’t want to hear bull about the fog of war...........
these are criminal acts that need to be punished.
Sorry but you ARE defending the administration.
Inexcusable
CRIMINAL NEGLECT
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This thread makes me realize how painful all this still is. May's graduation is going to be rough.
THe one person who called her kid told him about the shooting, and TOLD HIM TO GO TO CLASS.
He was IN NORRIS HALL when the shootings happened. So he well could have been killed.
There seems to be a “fog of war” in the analysis of the analysis.
>>Sorry but you ARE defending the administration.
Inexcusable
CRIMINAL NEGLECT<<
And your background in administration in Higher Education is....?
Its not an option, just like a fire drill. They have plenty of time and money for pep rallies and communist propaganda events at universities. Safety of the young adults is paramount.
“And your background in administration in Higher Education is....?”
Since when is a “background in administration” necessary to know you need to prepare for risks? That has nothing to do with it at all.
>>Since when is a “background in administration” necessary to know you need to prepare for risks? That has nothing to do with it at all.<<
Yes, but determining what risks and what kind of preparation is needed is a very complex process. If you haven’t done it, you don’t know what you are talking about.
“If you haven’t done it, you don’t know what you are talking about.”
I do it all the time. An administration background in education has NOTHING to do with it.
>>F a place has more than a certain number of employees (can’t remember the number) OSHA regs require a disaster recovery plan. if you are in an EQ zone (as declared by the USGS) then you MUST include EQ’s.<<
Yes, but what degree if DR? The one you are talking about is the standard “fancy fire drill” version. That has nothing to do with resuming operations plans, which is a whole other subject.
I am just saying that amateur opinions are just that — uninformed. If you want to live your life in bubble wrap, then have at it. Be ready to pay the price. If you want tuition to be in the millions per yer, then I am sure VT could plan for almost every possible risk scenario, up to and including a 9/11-type airplane attack on their buildings. But, short of that kind of funding, planning is based on a risk analysis and a whacko on campus probably wasn’t in that. Hell, if an ARMY post, which has armaments for God’s sake, wasn’t ready ready for a lone whacko, what is the onus on a private civilian institution?
Monday Morning QB’ing by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
>>I do it all the time. An administration background in education has NOTHING to do with it.<<
No, in Higher Ed, not education. Dealing with thousands of students in a complex environment takes specialized skills and knowledge. Which you don’t have.
“No, in Higher Ed, not education. Dealing with thousands of students in a complex environment takes specialized skills and knowledge. Which you don’t have.”
Evidently these folks don’t either. How many more kids died because of their incompetence.
Oh by the way you have no idea what experience I have. You obviously have a very high opinion of the University system. The same Universitys that are teaching our kids to be communists.
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