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To: GodGunsGuts
Way to show that all you can do is misrepresent science.

The vast majority of the genome has not proven to be functional at all. Still no known function.

Creationists in no way shape or form predicted that all species were related by common descent; all the “tree” or “shrub” talk is predicated on the same idea of common descent.

Creationists know nothing of DNA, they don't work with DNA, they don't understand DNA, they don't perform research on DNA. Your “Creation Safari” source you like to post from doesn’t even understand the difference between transcription and translation.

All you can do is misrepresent science, and, like your cowardly cohorts, run away with your hands over your ears in mortal fear that you might actually learn something about the subject you talk about day after day, while repeating the same misrepresentations.

224 posted on 12/03/2009 8:30:36 PM PST by allmendream (Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be RE-distributed?)
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To: allmendream

This is a miniature essay I wrote, which still need some work. It was posted on another topic but did not get much feedback.

The scientific community has mistakenly called self-ordering phenomena, self-organizing. A self-ordered phenomenon is not to be confused with self-organized. Self-order are events determined by the laws of nature. Bona fide self-organization, on the other hand, is the ordering of physical elements in such as way that yield complex formal function, requiring choice with intent. Self-organization and self-ordered should be thoroughly examined to correct the current paradigm. Many scientific papers have been published that presuppose self-organization as observed fact, despite the absences of empirical support; only self-ordering has been observed.
Stand-alone physicodynamics has never been observed to give rise to sophisticated formal function nor a formal utility of any kind, yet scientist hold the metaphysical belief that unaided physicodynamics can give rise to complex formal function; this is lacking empirical support. Self-ordering events are in accordance with physical law. No known law has been observed to give rise to formal self-organization, laws do the same thing every time: they are forced behaviors, they do not program at any level, nor generate the organization, coordination, and cooperation required by complex formal function. When we, as intelligent humans, organize something, we do so with a choice in mind; mere chance and combinatorial complexity is not organization. Organization does not take place, in the absence of someone making the correct choices. Randomness of physical elements cannot self-organize, however, they can self-order.
One of the requirements of organization is true decision nodes at every level, pre-programmed to make the correct choice that steer toward a formal function. All know life is cybernetic, yet self-ordering, limited by physical laws, is not capable of cybernetic programming, program for a potential function, steer toward pragmatic benefit, controlling and regulating integrated formal function, produce prescriptive information, or manifest useful utility, and other characteristics of complex functioning biological machines. In other words, self-ordering events do nothing useful; there is no goal, only an agent can do this.
We cannot self-organize ourselves internally, we only find ourselves in a already organized organism. Self-organization cannot happen in accordance with physical law, because physical laws of themselves do nothing. Self-organization can only take place if free from physical laws; natural forces do not make choices with intent, a requirement of formal self-organization, but even free of physical constraint does not program any kind of sophisticated formal function.
The current paradigm is what most scientists believe, not what is true. Most scientists believe self-organization has been observed, but in reality self-order is being observed. Self-ordered phenomenon is purely physicodynamic, not formal. Formal choices are instantiated into a physical matrix when you perform an action, which is not determined by natural laws. When you do something, such as build a car, you are instantiating your thoughts (non-physical) in the physical world by dynamically inert configurable switches. Configurable switches bridges formal to physicality and are only set my formal choices; unaided physicodynamics cannot set the switch. Physical law will not built the car, it is only when you make the choice and intend to carry out that decision, will the car be built. There is a one-way flow, that is formal toward physicodynamic. Self-organization requires freedom from constraints of natural laws, and is always the result of choice with intent.


232 posted on 12/03/2009 8:45:23 PM PST by Dr. John G.
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To: allmendream
"Creationists know nothing of DNA, they don't work with DNA..."

That is such a stupid statement! - There are more creationists in high level positions in genetic research than non creationists. I know this from stock holder open house days. I suspect that this is why you are so vile and bitter here; your boss is almost certainly a creationist, since non-creationists simply cannot comprehend the subject, and are always trying to inject their religion into the work.

237 posted on 12/03/2009 8:49:27 PM PST by editor-surveyor (The beginning of the O'Bomb-a administration looks a lot like the end of the Nixon administration)
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To: allmendream
If by “function” you mean encoding protein production that might be true but some of these non protein coding parts of the genome produce a form of RNA called “micro RNA”.

As time goes on more functions for this noncoding dna are being found.

239 posted on 12/03/2009 8:50:24 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: allmendream

==The vast majority of the genome has not proven to be functional at all. Still no known function.

So you think the genome is 90%+ active, but only 1.5-3.0% functional...you really crack me up...LOL!

==Creationists in no way shape or form predicted that all species were related by common descent; all the “tree” or “shrub” talk is predicated on the same idea of common descent.

Creationists predicted a ‘forest’ or ‘orchard’ of life with each tree or kind being separate and distinct from every other tree/kind. Take away the evos hypothetical horizontal gene transfer rescuing device and what do you have? PRECISELY WHAT THE CREATIONISTS HAVE BEEN PREDICTING ALL ALONG!

==Creationists know nothing of DNA, they don’t work with DNA, they don’t understand DNA, they don’t perform research on DNA.

That means a lot coming from a pencil pushing Ph.D. dropout like yourself. Almost every creationist I post is more qualified than you are. And most of them are extremely qualified and accomplished in their respective fields, to include DNA research. And as mentioned above, unlike you, none of them pussed out of their respective Ph.D. programs.

==run away with your hands over your ears in mortal fear that you might actually learn something about the subject

There is nothing I can learn from you except how evos who are way, way behind the cutting edge of the origins debate misrepresent science.


241 posted on 12/03/2009 8:55:16 PM PST by GodGunsGuts
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