Posted on 11/27/2009 8:32:10 AM PST by Irisshlass
This is going to do wonders for new enlistments and re-ups. /sarc
Personally, the seals should have just shot him dead.
Killing them is fine. Capturing them is fine. Having to beat them up in order to capture them is fine. But their physical safety is your responsibility once they are firmly in your custody. Physically harming prisoners who are not resisting or attempting to escape is not acceptable conduct for US military personnel. This isn't political correctness, it's the rules of war that we have been following for a long time.
My view isn't out of any concern for the prisoner. I don't care if he dies. It is because I care about our military. We are a professional military with high standards, not a bunch of street thugs who would punch a restrained captive.
I grant that we have had several places where the rules of engagement sucked. That is politicians making the job of the military harder.
But that is a different problem. This is about the military's policy for treatment of EPWs, completely different from rules of engagement.
If I was the Commander I would of asked, “You only hit him once? Are you getting soft?”
By Gidget Fuentes and Andrew Scutro - Staff writers
Posted : Wednesday Nov 25, 2009 19:04:10 EST
Three Navy SEALs are facing court-martial in connection with the alleged assault and mishandling of a detainee they captured in Iraq in early September, military officials said.
The military provided few details of the circumstances, but a source with knowledge of the investigation confirmed for Navy Times that the detainee was Ahmed Hashim Abed, the alleged planner of the March 2004 ambush, killing and mutilation of four Blackwater contractors in Fallujah.
“That’s why [the SEALs] went after him,” the source said, who asked not to be named. He noted that the takedown was “kinetic” but there was no gunfire. “[Abed] had a gun. The intel was perfect. No shots were fired.”
The three SEALs — Special Warfare Operators 2nd Class Matthew McCabe and Jonathan Keefe, and SO1 Julio Huertas — will be arraigned Dec. 7 in a military court in Norfolk, Va., said Army Lt. Col. Holly Silkman, a spokeswoman with U.S. Special Operations Command Central. All are assigned to SEAL Team 10, based in Little Creek, Va., Navy records show.
McCabe is charged with one count each of assault of the detainee, dereliction of duty and making a false official statement, Silkman said.
Keefe is charged with one count each of dereliction of duty and false official statement; Huertas is accused of dereliction of duty, making a false official statement and impeding an investigation, she said.
Army Maj. Gen. Charles Cleveland, SOCCent commander, preferred the charges against the SEALs and will serve as the convening authority as the cases proceed to court-martial, tentatively scheduled for mid-January, Silkman said.
The alleged incident happened in Iraq on or about Sept. 1, Silkman said. None of the SEALs is confined, she added.
The source said the charges stem not from the capture itself — which have a high potential for violence — but from later on, when Abed was under detention.
“If they really wanted to [beat] him that was the time do it,” during the capture, the source said. “That’s why this is so ridiculous.”
The charges were first reported by Fox News, which posted a story on its Web site Tuesday. The source confirmed that Abed was known by the military code “Objective Amber,” but could not say if the capture went down in the city of Fallujah or in the outlying area.
The source said the allegations began when a master-at-arms sailor assigned to guard Abed told a SEAL platoon commander that one of the operators had punched Abed in the stomach.
“This was reported by the SEAL platoon commander to the chain of command,” he said.
The SEALs have been assigned military attorneys to defend them in the cases, which will be tried separately as special courts-martial.
One defense attorney said the SEALs refused to accept nonjudicial punishment, which are administrative actions that some in the military may consider as an admission of guilt.
Neal Puckett, a defense attorney who is representing McCabe, said the SEALs are being essentially charged for allegedly giving the detainee “a punch in the gut.”
They are expected to plead not guilty when they appear at their December arraignment, he said. “They are all together, and they all maintain that they are innocent of these charges,” said Puckett, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel and judge advocate.
The SEALs were on the tail-end of their deployment to Iraq when the alleged incident happened, he said.
McCabe’s special court-martial is slated to begin Jan. 19, he said.
Huertas, 28, is from Blue Island, Ill., and enlisted in 1999. He has served in special warfare units since 2002. He has an Iraq Campaign Medal and was advanced to E-6 in June 2006, Navy records show.
Keefe, 25, is from Yorktown, Va., and enlisted in 2006. He began SEAL training the same year, Navy records show. He was last advanced in June 2008.
McCabe, 24 is originally from Perrysburg, Ohio, and enlisted in 2003. He served on the Amphibious Assault Ship Belleau Wood before training in special warfare. He was advanced in September 2007, Navy records show.
I don't believe you do. Nothing you have said bears this out. Prove me wrong.
Sorry about that. I removed myself from the supporters of that cause. I also requested that my previous post #49 be deleted.
Killing them is fine. Capturing them is fine. Having to beat them up in order to capture them is fine. But their physical safety is your responsibility once they are firmly in your custody. Physically harming prisoners who are not resisting or attempting to escape is not acceptable conduct for US military personnel. This isn't political correctness, it's the rules of war that we have been following for a long time.
My view isn't out of any concern for the prisoner. I don't care if he dies. It is because I care about our military. We are a professional military with high standards, not a bunch of street thugs who would punch a restrained captive.
You said it very well, and I would agree 100%, even if many other FReepers here don't seem to get it. Thanks for your clear statement of the matter at hand.
Why are they publishing these guys names? They have enough to worry about already without fear of retribution from dumbass muslim fanitic.
The cause is worthy and the piece was fairly well written if they would have left out the bad language. I hope you told them why. They could have had a few more supporters.
“Busted lips save ships”
I like that, good tag line material.
Why are they publishing these guys names?
In general (not just this specific case) I think you have a long precedent of publishing names of people involved in or with being charged with something. You can look at this as a method of protection for people and their rights. The other way would be to keep these things secret and not publish names or even that anyone was charged or that they even exist. They simply disppear and are never heard from again (as you hear about in some other "regimes" around the world). You don't want that type of practice going on here (i.e., "keeping it secret").
I'm surprised you're here posting. It would seem more likely that you (in that deluded haze you exist in) would have walked off a cliff or into the path of an oncoming bus by now.
And quit tap dancing. It's more than obvious you haven't seen a day of combat in your entire life. Regardless of how you were "drilled." You see, in combat there are these things called "enemies." This particular enemy was behind killing, burning and mutilating 4 Americans - that was before they were dragged through the streets and hung from a bridge - the entire demonic affair being video taped for bragging right.
He's lucky these SEALs didn't empty their magazines into his Islamist ape skull. Instead they have to suffer a vast minority of illogical bizarro imebciles (of whom you're obviously among) calling for their heads.
I think I'll go throw up Thanksgiving now.
That is the truth. They are handling the murderer Hasan with kid gloves but going hard core on these guys. I want to puke.
No it is not. The goal of the socialist communists are to treat enemy combatants better than they would treat a gang member or thug on the streets of the United States. The political correct would have you believe with these murderers they are actually human. If the United States were actually serious about winning a war against terrorism they would take the cuffs off our military and let them win using whatever tactics and enforce necessary to ensure a total victory. The Commanders in WWII had no doubts about their decisions when it came to total victory. They used any and all methods to secure that victory. But then they still had willing a free press that was largely patriotic to sing their praises when they were victorious. Unlike today the media or state controlled media are in bed with the socialist communists and love to hate our military and take joy in playing up these BS stories of so called atrocities against our military members. Mainly always the enlisted that do the dirty work for this country while the officers cower and gladly throw them under the buss to protect their political asses from the limelight.
There is always that...
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