Healthcare Bill: Pay for a Plan or Go to Jail

New American ^ | Nov. 7, 2009 | Joe Wolverton, II

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is prepared to jail any American who does not buy a qualifying health insurance plan if the healthcare bill she sponsored (H.R. 3962, as amended) is passed into law.

On November 6, Congressman Dave Camp (R-Mich.), the senior member of the House Ways and Means Committee, released a letter he received from the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) in response to his inquiry as to potential penalties for failing to comply with mandates set forth in the so-called “Affordable Health Care for America Act.” The information set out in the response should be shocking, but such unconstitutional abuses of power are becoming de rigueur and have almost lost their ability to stupefy. Still, the details are sinister. As the old saying goes, the devil is definitely in them.

In a letter dated November 5, the Joint Committee on Taxation informed Congressman Camp that there is a broad range of civil and criminal penalties applicable to any American who fails to purchase a health insurance policy that passes legislative muster, or as euphemistically styled in the bill itself: “acceptable health insurance coverage.” As reported by the Congressional Budget Office, the lowest annual cost of an approved family non-group policy would be approximately $15,000. That is to say, currently written in the bill under consideration, if a family’s health insurance plan doesn’t cost at least $15,000 a year, then you are breaking the law and will be held accountable.

As for just exactly what a “qualified plan” will require, no one is quite sure and those who should be (the elected representatives who will be voting for or against the bill) probably haven’t read the complete text because they can’t fit the bill in their briefcases as it is a hefty 1,990 pages.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

This bill will kill my small business and put me in jail!

[Tarpon]

Can you image the things you can sell this way? Buy a government suicide clown car or go to jail. Buy a 100 square foot government house or go to jail. Buy this soylent green or go directly to the mixing pot.

The profit potential is enormous. Maybe that's why the Constitution doesn't permit such abuse of power.

This is tyranny.

[Big E]

Well of course they are going to put you in jail. If you don’t pay your taxes, they put you in jail. That’s all this is, one giant tax, enforced by threat of jail.

[Man50D]

Any version of federal health care is unconstitutional since Article 1 Section 8 does not specifically grant Congress the power to regulate health care. The people are not bound by any unconstitutional act conducted by any branch of government.

[ez]

How long before we can get this beast before the Supreme Court, should it become law?

[Domandred]

I just got insurance quotes for renewing my policy. The best coverage policy for my whole family at the highest rate, lowest deductible doesn’t even get to $15000 a year ($1250 a month).

Does that mean even if I have the best insurance I can buy from my provider I still go to jail?

[SeanOGuano]

Between heath care non compliance and gun owners, the dems seem to really want to create new classes of criminals. They’re going to need to de-criminalize some of the existing crimes to make room in the jails.

[Billyv]

Being retired military my wife and I are covered but I have dependent children who are college age but too old for coverage (five year plan, it happens), I can now have the choice of paying for college and having my children arrested, or healthcare and no college, or just borrow until my family or children are forever in debt, oh wait, congress already did that with the stimulus didn’t they!

Our founding fathers aren’t rolling over in their graves, they are spinning nonstop.

[sodpoodle]

Does anyone have the following figures/data?
Population of the U.S.
Total Number of Medicare beneficiaries.
Total Number of Medicaid beneficiaries.
Total Military personnel & dependent Tricare beneficiaries.
Total Number of Insured employer/employees.
Total Number of persons with individual health care policies
Total Number of really rich, health folks who pay as they go.
Number of people insured under Property and Auto personal injury coverage if accidentally injured?

Does that really leave 46 million people without access to medical care?

[Tzimisce]

Of course, people in the country illegally are exempt. :)

[jpl]

Nancy Pelosi is a fascistic penny-ante tyrant.

Take your individual mandate and stick it where the sun don't shine, Pelosi.

[GeorgiaDawg32]

"“Do you really think we want those laws observed?" Said Dr. Ferris. We want them broken. You better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick and you'd better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now, that's the system Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged, Part 2, Chapter 3, Page 404

------------------------

“The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power.

Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power.

What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing.

All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives.

They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.

We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.

Power is not a means; it is an end.

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

The object of persecution is persecution.

The object of torture is torture.

The object of power is power”.

-George Orwell, 1984, Part Three, Chapter III, page 263

[Lou Budvis]

Time for the Second Republic.

[peeps36]

I'm having a hard time restraining myself after reading what this douchebag and her scumbag minions have in store for us. Tar and feathers are too mild for these communist pigs. Americans need to protest this bill and tell them to stick it up their ass.

[Polybius]

Does that really leave 46 million people without access to medical care?

Everybody in America has "access to medical care".

You just show up at an Emergency Room and, by Federal law, they are required to treat any emergent condition.

[mojitojoe]

I won’t pay a dime and I won’t go to jail. However, move permanently to my vacation home outside the US, just like my doctor plans to do.

[mojitojoe]

Refuse to comply, period! Tell them to stick it. They can’t arrest 150 million or more. Anyone that is against this and goes along with it, is a coward and deserves what they get.

[1000 silverlings]

let's see, they can't pay for the criminals they have now in prison and want to let them all out, some never even go to jail now, even after dozens of offences. So now they are going to jail the young, the old, the infirm, no illegal aliens though, probably nobody on welfare, just working or retired people (whitey)who can't in most cases afford it in the first place.

Pelosi thy name is infamy

[kevslisababy]

At this point I’ve decided the line has been drawn and I plan on non-compliance and jail time. I just have to make arrangements for my daughter, but she will be 18 in a few months.

[JSDude1]

Please Let your REPRESENTATIVE know your OPPOSITION to this bill: HR 3962

(202)224-3121

or http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt

[444Flyer]

“I won’t pay a dime and I won’t go to jail. However, move permanently to my vacation home outside the US, just like my doctor plans to do.”

I know for a FACT that some of the best and brightest surgeons in this nation will be doing the same. The exodus will begin within a short period of time if this POC passes. Try finding a decent doctor if it passes...it won't happen.

It will be medical practice the likes of King/Drew Medical Center.

“Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital (MLK-Harbor or King-Harbor), formerly known as Martin Luther King Jr./Drew Medical Center (King/Drew), is a public hospital in Willowbrook, an unincorporated section of Los Angeles County, California, north of the city of Compton and south of the Watts neighborhood of Los Angeles. The hospital shut down in August 2007, due to substandard conditions outlined over several years; there are plans to reopen it in some capacity, though a final plan has not been outlined. Currently only an outpatient clinic operates on the site.

MLK-Harbor is operated by the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (DHS) and has 48 beds. In the 2000s, widely publicized problems related to incompetence and mismanagement caused the hospital to undergo a radical overhaul: bringing the number of beds down to 42 from 233.[1] Since 2004, 260 hospital staffers, including 41 doctors, had been fired or had resigned as a result of disciplinary proceedings. It currently has 1,400 employees. To alleviate the impact on the community of the large loss of capacity, The Los Angeles County Medical Alert Center (Felix: MAC) contracts ambulances take approximately 250 patients per month to other local hospitals. [1]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.-Harbor_Hospital

[Lucky9teen]

Health Care Bill -

To Congress:

Pass this plan, go to jail!!!!

[jpl]

Sometimes I dream that the hundreds of millions of working taxpaying Americans will join together in civil disobedience and go on strike. We could bring these people to their knees, if we only had the will.

[RightFighter]

No, it means that when this monstrosity passes, your $1250 per month policy will cost $2500 per month. Then you’ll not only meet the $15,000 per year minimum, but you’ll have a “Cadillac plan” ($24,000 per year or more?) that will subject you to even higher taxation.

[luvEastTenn]

Along these same lines, why couldn’t the governors of states band together to resist this bill, should it pass? Something or someone needs to serve as a buffer between individual states and a tyrannical federal government.

[Jay777]

Scary penalities if you don't do as they say.

[randomhero97]

I will NOT pay and I will NOT go to jail.

Blaze of Glory

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

They’ll prosecute and imprison the individuals who have significant assets to seize. They’re looters, it’s what they do. They’ll confiscate real estate, businesses, vehicles, bank accounts, pensions, guns. Then they’ll release the victim from prison, due to a shortage of beds.

[668 - Neighbor of the Beast]

Divest yourself of other assets and your freedom should be secure. They don’t want prisoners, they want loot. See post 28.

[TheStickman]

I can’t imagine this is remotely Constitutional. What an obscenity!

[ljco]

****NOT APPLICABLE TO , ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS******

[George from New England]

I pay about $3500 a year for health protection through Samaritan Ministries. Only $300 out of pocket per incident.

13,000+ families share each others needs.

No contracts so no state laws can dictate coverage or benefits — all faith based.

They will be forced out of business.

Thank you Obama, I do not have $15,000 a year to waste on a health family.

[GOPJ]

Well SOMEONE HAS to pay for the “chosen” dem victim groups being moved up to 1st class health care... They’ll get their health care for free so cough it up middle class and working poor - you’re gonna pay through the nose.

[kevslisababy]

Yep, already thought of that. Wonder how far they will go back to “recapture” it.

[mojitojoe]

They can’t and won’t jail millions. They won’t do it to 100’s. They know all hell is close to breaking lose now, that would seal the deal and there would be a civil war 2.
The line has been drawn. Lick their boots or tell them to stick it and don’t comply in any way.

[lapsus calami]

 

 

Of course it's about loot, not jail. Jail costs the government money and would probably only be employed to make an example of some unfortunate someone in order to send a message to intimidate the rest of the population. And certainly everyone's loot, not just anyone that could be classified as rich folk - recall that a cornerstone of communism is the abolition of private property. Private property in any form belonging to any and everyone, period. We are witnessing a diabolical abomination in progress here, a most evil one that can and probably will set citizens against one another. The feds are to apparently have full real-time access and tally as to what finances you have, what you own, what is insured - everything. The responsibility of enforcing and carrying out such policy will certainly trickle down to local people in a neighborhood near you.

 

From the looks of things eventually those typically cheerful and friendly folk you may see behind a desk or counter at your bank, credit union or insurance office, see around town at a store or restaurant, even maybe rub elbows with at the Lion's Club or local Chamber of Commerce fundraiser will be charged with abiding by and upholding the mad financial policies laid out in this bill. The legal aspects would fall to local county clerks, justices of the peace, constables and sheriff's deputies in such matters of forfeiture, seizure, foreclosure and the like, against their constituents, neighbors, friends and even family. Does any of this have the sound of going well or even peaceably? Many avenues look available which can lead to fracturing of our nation. Armed standoffs occurring at homesteads and angry people wanting an accounting of the finances they had worked for and saved up confronting, perhaps violently, financial institution officials may lead to the statists in Washington finally playing their gun-control card in order to "quell the wave of reckless violence that is sweeping the nation". I see a lot of the aloofness and devil-may-care attitude in this administration not as incompetence, but as the smugness of successful treachery. There may be a lot of people that we may characterize as leftist kooks and such that are advisors or "czars" to the White House, but on close look these kooks may have a very firm and competent grasp on political theory, history and human psychology, enabling them to craft plans within plans that could cover every base, counter whatever action we the people may do or try. In other words, for every reaction to their actions, there is a way to make our actions fit in with their agenda, regardless. Unless we can get inside their true decision making processes, I'm not sure how any of that can get countered.

 

 

 

 

 

Messrs Travis and Squantos - am I off in the tall weeds here - am not looking forward to a possibility of having to go head-to-head with any local/county officials, but that's what this bill insanity is implying to me.

 

 

[CaliforniaCon]

Re: “Refuse to comply, period! Tell them to stick it. They can’t arrest 150 million or more. Anyone that is against this and goes along with it, is a coward and deserves what they get.”

***************

Maybe it’s almost time to sell the house and go on the road, permanently — wanted to buy a big motor home for some time, sounds like it could be sooner than I thought. Many people are living in them now — they get messages from friends and relatives wanting to meet up so off they go to a new destination. Works for me.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

LINK TO H.R. BILL 3962 TEXT

[yorkie]

This is TRUE:

“And while the ad doesn’t mention it, the penalty could be much more severe for anyone who refuses to pay it. Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, according to the chief of staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation.”

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/rnc-tax-attack-goes-too-far/

[PuzzledInTX]

Refuse to comply, period! Tell them to stick it. They can’t arrest 150 million or more. Anyone that is against this and goes along with it, is a coward and deserves what they get.

I totally agree! If this bill is signed into law, I think that I will publicly turn myself in to the authorities claiming that I will be criminally negligent in following the letter of the law. This provision is insane! Not only will health care be provided free in jail, but all of my productive activity (work and taxes produced) outside of jail will halt. Imagine thousands of the doctors, scientists, and manufacturers who drive the economic engine suddenly going to jail and halting all progress. (Now I sound like Ayn Rand.) We need to join forces to make a public statement against this insanity!

[Soothesayer9]

“Buy a government suicide clown car or go to jail.”

LOL

Killer Klowns Kars from the Kenyan

[Travis McGee]

You must learn to love Big Brother, Winston.

[lapsus calami]

 

 

Ouch.

 

It's not in the fibre of my being.

 

 

 

[spectre]

****NOT APPLICABLE TO , ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS******______________________________________________

And ***NOT APPLICABLE TO, MEDICAIDE patients.****

That leaves the rest of us who pay taxes and must do our patriotic duty for the greater common good..

sw

[OldPossum]

“Along these same lines, why couldn’t the governors of states band together to resist this bill, should it pass? Something or someone needs to serve as a buffer between individual states and a tyrannical federal government.”

If this doesn’t resuscitate secessionist movements, nothing will. It will be interesting to watch what happens.

[Soothesayer9]

“They’ll prosecute and imprison the individuals who have significant assets to seize. They’re looters, it’s what they do. They’ll confiscate real estate, businesses, vehicles, bank accounts, pensions, guns. Then they’ll release the victim from prison, due to a shortage of beds.”

- Then when we’re all released from prison, we won’t be able to own guns. Aye, there’s the rub.

http://www.acafs.org/Media/MediaManager/asset_forfeiture_best_practices_8X101.pdf

[Squantos]

Yep........we have been dealt a shit sandwich for sure. Senate, 2010 election, Courts etc is last hope and that is a very thin hope !

Tax shelters till this trash is run out of office or worse is my legal defense. As well seriously considering a run for sheriff in 2012 !

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

Well, at least in jail, we’ll get FREE 3 hots and a cot AND health care courtesy of Uncle Sam!!! Now there is some IRONY for you!

[mojitojoe]

Yea, but what does that solve. You still will have to pay taxes on things. You will still be stuck here with sh*tty government run health care. If it gets to that point, I’m just going to leave and go where I can enjoy life again without having to give it all up.
We have an option, one that we may end up taking. It wasn’t our first option, but it’s a very nice one in a very nice country that reminds me very much of how America was years ago.

[mojitojoe]

You must learn to love Big Brother
_______________
When hell freezes over