Posted on 09/09/2009 6:59:40 AM PDT by Scythian
They have the sheer numbers to put through any bill they want. They know they are in VERY SERIOUS trouble now in the upcoming elections, in fact, it could be devastating for them. So, in order to ensure their planned agenda of socialism moves forward regardless of upcoming election outcomes they must pass a Government Health care plan that can undercut and eventually eliminate all private insurance. Even if they lose the presidency next go around, they will have won the war. And they can continue to rule from that point forward without even winning the White House.
The stakes are very high, but my gut feeling is telling me that they are going to put this through against the will of the people knowing full well it can never be undone. Eventually, complete control will be theirs. They know that increasingly Americans are less Christian, are taught nothing of liberty in schools, and that they will end up in the White House again. If I was Obama, and working for the other team, then that is exactly what I would do, pass a Government Health Care plan regardless of the feelings of the American people. Since the MSM now basically writes the history books Obama will be a martyr, not appreciated in his time, because he will surely lose the next presidential race over the health care bill. However, he will be hailed as the one who steered the great ship of capitalism away from the rocks and toward a world of peace and harmony. The democrats will have ensured the path of this country is forever theirs...
It’s the perfect plan …
Hopefully, the tea parties and townhall meetings can bring us back from the brink.
You have confused the “battle” with the “war”
RE :” If I was Obama, and working for the other team, then that is exactly what I would do, pass a Government Health Care plan regardless of the feelings of the American people”
If you was Obama you couldnt ‘pass’ a bill, only congress can do that. Obama can only sign or veto one if it gets to him, and he wont veto.
Your prediction is not helpful, what will be in the passed bill and when will it pass?
Why will it pass? Because Dems and many Pubbies will take the easy way out and call it compromise.
Plus it will get done before the end of this year as voters have a short memory and politicians rely on that. Many many voters will not remember how they voted a year from now ... nor will they care.
With the AMNESTY/SHAMNESY last year, the voters really got their Congressman/Senators attention with phone calls and faxes. Unique in the annals of politicians listening.
Question is ... can the voters do it again? Don’t think I’ll hold my breath to see.
...to literally start a civil war.
For all the Town Hall protests and Glenn Beck exposures, it will still be passed, in moderated format, and then expanded continuosly over time as ALL government-run programs are.
We will fund the agenda via wealth-redistribution to buy the votes of the lackluster/non-productive/welfare class for every government takeover.
Get used to it.
Stop being rational, dammit! It's "Run Around Shrieking Like a Loon" Day here on FR! ;)
The bills aren’t scheduled to become law until 2013. What is there to stop repeal prior to that, especially should we regain congress in 2010 or 2012, and especially should they use the nuclear option to pass it?
Why wasn't I told? Now I have to stop being rational too, like E. Pluribus Unum. And here I also thought we may be able to repeal the bill in the future.
My thinking is this, they’ve shown their hand now, even independents and democrats (at least some) now realize they’ve been duped, what the right has been saying is true, they are socialists, they must make the move now, and this bill is everything, the hinge pin on which total controls swings ....
I understand that, but the bill doesn’t become law until after the next presidential election. The idea that they’re trying to solidify power this way should work in our favor. I’m simply not sold on the idea that their taking this route is the final nail in America’s coffin. It may be the final nail in the coffin of the Democrat Party.
The Wall street Journal is reporting that Obama is going to back the socialized medicine aka public option in his speech tonight and they are going to ram it down our throats.
>> Since Obamacare doesn’t go into effect until 2013, there will be plenty of time for the 2010 Republican Congress to convene a death panel on it.
It’ll be as easy as taking candy from a child’s mouth.
Assuming you’re not being sarcastic, you give the GOP too much credibility. Also imagine the hysteria that will be launched by the unions and socialists against any effort to undo the damage set in place by the current DC crew.
Let's all hold hands and run around in a really BIG circle, together, screaming "AAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!! AAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!" That'll take care of things, I betcha! ;)
Problem is the Democrats will filibuster any roll backs in the Senate
I love your optimism! I pray daily for our country, I too hope we can save it.
Not if they're dead.
</sarcasm>
if they do, I predict at least a dozen states will make Tenth Amendment claims nullifying Obamacare within their borders, setting the stage for a Constitutional showdown
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2311280/posts
Since then, we've had about 25 or so Dems say they won't be identified with a "public option." That's not enough, even if the Republicans stand united (never a given). Further, like you I said at that time that in many ways, this was a suicide mission, that if they got their doomsday machine in place, they can always come back later for reelection.
That said, I'm much more optimistic today than I was a month ago. First, I think there is genuine rebellion in the air if they pass this over the will of the people. Pundits were saying 100 Dem seats in trouble. Well, it might be higher. I thought we'd need a 2/3 majority in each house, not just of Republicans but of conservatives, to undo this. Astoundingly, we may come close if they keep it up. The "generic" ballot has fallen for Dems by 15 or so points in a couple of months. Virtually all the polls show Dems losing or with tiny leads in extremely safe states.
So, it's certainly not a given anymore. Likely, yes, but not certain.
One of the dirty little secrets about "health care reform" is that it isn't driven by power-hungry government officials, or by malcontented citizens demanding freebies at taxpayers' expense.
This is driven entirely by large corporate interests in the U.S. who see employer-paid medical insurance as an enormous drag on their bottom lines.
They are now talking about “reconciliation” to get this passed because they know they don’t have the votes. I don’t understand that process but know it is definitely an “in your face” approach to getting what they want. (They being the RATS!)
Whew! I guess time will tell, but it sure pooped me out...
Now, getting back to having anything they pass repealed.
Anything can be undone. Given there is a President in the WH after 0bama with some cojones.
Don’t know about the WSJ, but Suzanne Malveaux just said on CNN (it was on in the Lounge) that FUBO will “give the Republicans Medical Malpractice reform” to get it passed. I guess we’ll see soon enough...
"Trust, but verify." ;)
I personally don’t think there will even be a vote on this in 2009.
Blue dogs can’t vote in favor of it- it will irritate their constituents. They can’t oppose it either- it would damage their campaign funding and support with the Democrat base.
The ideal situation for blue dogs would be no vote at all. Then the constituents aren’t as fired up as the crap didn’t pass anyhow- yet they can still give lip service to the unvoted on bill and retain their support from the base.
The coming elections in NJ and VA in November could be a harbinger of things to come. If the Reps win, then it will send a strong signal to the Dems about their vulnerability. If the Dems win one or both states, then the Dems will move ahead faster with their socialist agenda. I hope the vote on ObamaCare comes after the November elections.
I dont think so !
How will will it get through the Senate?
Of course he’s going for the public option. He’s going to have it his way. Period.
When have there ever been enough politicians in Washington that had the balls to take away the goodies from the proles? Just one example of this happening would be helpful, because I don’t think it’s ever happened. Not even close.
” not just of Republicans but of conservatives, to undo this. Astoundingly, we may come close if they keep it up. “
I wish I could be as sanguine as you are — unfortunately, history shows that once something passes from the realm of the legislators to the grasping hands of the entrenched bureaucracy, it becomes sacrosanct...
The ‘94 revolution, with its Contract With America, was about ‘reform’, instead of ‘rolling back’....
Even Reagan couldn’t manage his desire to get rid of the Department of Education....
If this monstrosity passes, in any form, I’m afraid that we’ve lost....
Prohibition. If a constitutional amendment can be repealed, a law can be repealed. I'm not saying it won't be tough, even doubtful, but I'm saying it could happen.
One of my neighbors (a McCain or Dier) back in December was claiming democrats could pass anything they wanted. In July he predicted by Early August Obama would sign a bill. Now he is in hiding as the democrats broke out in civil war and are attacking one another.
Is your theory that they get 60 in Senate with Sen Snow and every single democrat, or 51 with reconciliation?
The pessimism and defeatism of some Freepers is pretty amazing sometimes. It won’t pass. The votes aren’t there for a public option in the Senate and probably aren’t there in the House, where 37 Blue-Dog Democrats are on the record against the public option.
If it does pass, the tax increases will take effect and choke off any recovery at a time of national insolvency, leading to higher unemployment. If you live in a major city, I would consider moving.
Either way, the RATS are screwed. They have no pro-growth policy prescriptions. Their agenda is the agenda of a parasite. Obeyme and the RATS failure will be epic.
I’m tired of the angst, fellow Freepers. They will fail and fail spectacularly.
Besides, we have the guns. ;-)
I'm not going to hang my hat on the slim chance of getting this POS bill repealed later. Personally, I'm sick of seeing some Freepers drooling with glee over the passage of this bill, just because they think the Republicans will score some kind of political points in the next election. Screw both of the parties. This is much bigger than parties. The fate of our free society is at stake.
Or Michelle Malkin's site.
Or Hot Air.
Or Red State.
Or Ace of Spades.
Or Gateway Pundit.
Or NRO's "The Corner."
At this point, I'm feeling perky enough to declare, with some confidence: "Nuh-uh." ;)
Yep. And the Democrats would be campaigning on “The Republicans want to take away your Health Care!” from now until the sun grows cold.
Wanna bet it won’t happen?
The Rats have psyched everyone out... even conservative people think you can't reverse or nullify legislation. It is another victory of the goobermint skools over the mind of the electorate (if you want to call it a 'mind'.)
The most excellent example of a big law that fell hard is the passage of the 21st Amendment.
It should be the template of what a Reform-oriented GOP will be doing in 2010.
Rescind, repeal, reform. The new slogan of the GOP.
Regards,
You are absolutely correct. The Tenth Amendment domino would be the next to fall.
IF it passes (big, big IF), my reaction will be the following:
“Your move, Texas.”
Whatever Texas does will be copied. God bless Texas.
Timing is everything. I can't read their mind but it seems like the politics of the day is to "wait and see" what zer0 has to say and then react.
We are ahead of the curve here on FR.
It can be undone. Don’t let the idea that it cannot be undone take hold.
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