JAMES TARANTO: It's certifiable: the last word on Obama's place of birth

The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 30, 2009 | JAMES TARANTO

[curiosity]

Several readers have written over the past few days taking us to task for dismissing so-called birthers as lunatics without bothering to refute their claims. We reluctantly concede their point. The birthers have managed to sow confusion in the minds of some who are not lunatics, and for the latter group’s benefit it is worth clarifying matters.

[Kells]

A birth computer printout like the one already shown could have been obtained just by filling out a form after the birth had taken place elsewhere.

That is simply not true.

Here is one way a birth computer printout could have been obtained without a Hawaiian birth (and why the original birth certificate it needed):

In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”

[In other words, this form of vault birth certificate, the Delayed Certificate, required no more than a statement before a government bureaucrat by one of the parents or (the law does not seem to me clear on this) one of Barack Obama’s grandparents. If the latter is true, Ann Dunham did not have to be present for this statement or even in the country.]

http://www.westernjournalism.com/?page_id=2697

[CharlesWayneCT]

If she was a single mother, how does that change his citizenship?

I’ve wondered if some are arguing that a child must be able to prove who both of their biological parents are in order to be qualified to be President.

[Munz]

i agree and that is the problem with it.

All I am asking is fairness. Make Obama go through the same senate hearings that McCain went through.
Of course he won’t because they all agreed that in order to be a natural born citizen you had to have parentS (plural) who were American citizens.

Then Obama would have to show his birth certificate.

This is no longer a question of his birth certificate, it is a question of WHAT is he hiding.

Now we shojld see all of his records including college, high school, medical, EVERYTHING.

So much for the most transparent leadership in history. More like the biggest lairs which is saying a lot considering he had Nixon and Clinton as predecessors.

[BP2]

Again I ask -- WHERE was he born?

[El Sordo]

Please reread my statement.

Any time you come across this kind of mess, watch for the true believer who claims all they need is ‘X’.

Give them ‘X’ and then they will ask you: “Well, but what about ‘Y’?”

Follow this over time and note how statements and demands change with new information.

[El Sordo]

” think what the founders were aiming to do was limit the presidency to those people who were born to and would be raised by citizens. “

One of the better ways I think I’ve heard it put is: “Born and raised in ‘the American Experience’...”

Sadly, I don’t think the Founders ever imagined what the ‘American Experience’ might become.

[Star Traveler]

You said — Follow this over time and note how statements and demands change with new information.

—

You’re exactly right... it’s the “moving goalposts”... :-)

BUT..., I’ll have to say that I have seen several FReepers be extremely frank and honest about this matter that you just mentioned. They’ve said, very clearly, that no matter what documents are presented, no matter who evaluates it, no matter who gives their credibility to it, no matter how many people agree with some evidence, no matter if a judge agrees with it — to them it will *never be enough* for them to ever believe that Obama is qualified (not even if the Supreme Court says so)...

I’ve got to admit that this is being honest. That’s exactly the way a lot of the “very obsessive” feel about the issue.

So, I wouldn’t ever expect to see them change their minds... Heck! I couldn’t change the mind of a guy who would never believe that men landed on the moon, either — and I tried and tried for a very long time. It never worked... LOL...

[STE=Q]

Karma is an ancient Sanskrit word that means ACTION or DEED.

And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I ****DO**** to inherit eternal life?"

And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?"

And he answered and said, "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

Jesus replied and said, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho; and he fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went off leaving him half dead"

"And by chance a certain priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side."

"And likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side."

"But a certain Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion,"

"and came to him, and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.'

"And on the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return, I will repay you.'"

"Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?"

And he said, "the one who showed mercy toward him." And Jesus said to him, "Go and ****DO*** the same."

It's bearable to listen to one who does NOT KNOW but is willing to learn -- as is the habit of the wise -- but to listen to one who knows NOTHING, yet THINKS that he knows: is painful in the extreme!

STE=Q

[El Sordo]

Hawaii?

[Larousse2]

I agree with you.

[STE=Q]

Again I ask -- WHERE was he born?

Don't cloud the issue.

He and his identical twin brother were both born in Hawaii!

STE=Q

[BP2]

I'm sure I speak for most people who doubt Mr. Obama's eligibility:

The more protests we get from Left and RINOs who want us to leave this
alone, the more EMBOLDENED we are to find the TRUTH. As we've seen
this week on ObamaCare, the Right can stop him AND deal with the Birth Certificate
issue at the same time!

Mr. Obama is not being transparent like he promised before the election, and the Left
and RINOs know this! WE will find the TRUTH since they DARE NOT to ask.

It may be an Inconvenient TRUTH for those who voted for him, but this is bigger than
party loyalty, as we see Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Independents and others
joining in this quest of who the REAL Obama is. Some of us are looking for a birthplace.
OTHERS don't care if his mother was a US Citizen or if he was born in the US --
his father was not a US Citizen and therefore Mr. Obama is not qualified to hold office
as Commander in Chief in the eyes of Framers of the US Constitution or any
Amendment ratified thereafter.

We will continue to DARE to ask questions -- and dig while Mr. Obama CONTINUES
to DELAY in answering these questions. We will continue to be at Online Forums,
Town Meetings and Court Rooms, asking "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE".
We WILL NOT be going away, no matter how little or how much you belittle, complain
or protest -- sorry. We will continue to add to our ranks, educating along the way, and
adding to the throngs who DARE to ask, "WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE".

No database, microfiche, archive, subpoena or witness will be overlooked
to find the TRUTH about Mr. Obama and the past he's worked SO hard
to hide from the citizens of the United States!

I reiterate -- we are NOT going away.

[RummyChick]

. He was born of a Marriage that was Void Ab Initio.There is an out of wedlock statute. One year residency requirement.

Heck ,some people around here are claiming there is an Immigration statute that defines natural born citizen and says those words in the statute..

People are just making stuff up.

As for Natural Born Citizen, no one knows what is required for that .

There a lot of people in this country who do not know the identity of their father. What if it was sperm donation to lesbian couple or a single mother, etc.

[Star Traveler]

It appears you need to study up on the Bible a bit more, if you think that Karma (a derivative of Hindu teachings) is related to the Bible... LOL...

—

One article discussing the finding of New Age doctrines (such as this) in the Bible — which some people *try* to do... but it’s a false theology...

The New Age Twist - Finding New Age Doctrine In The Bible
http://www.watchman.org/na/natwist.htm

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From a cult website.. watchman.org

Karma: The Hindu principle of cause and effect. Representing neither good nor evil, all actions and events are balanced with corresponding actions and events in the past or future (including past and future lives through reincarnation).

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#Karma

Hinduism: The major world religion that originated from the ancient religions of India, which originally embraced polytheism. As a more unified world religion, Hinduism teaches pantheism; the ancient gods (especially the triad of Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva) are commonly interpreted as representations of the various aspects of the divine (Brahman). Human beings progress to the ultimate realization of their oneness with Brahman (often called Nirvana) through reincarnation according to the law of karma. Some of the concepts of Hinduism are incorporated, modified, and expanded upon in the New Age Movement.

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#Hinduism

Reincarnation: Belief originating with religions of the East (e.g. Hinduism) that when a person dies he has the ability to come again to the earth, inhabit a new body, and live as many lives as needed to progress towards a religious goal. Whereas Hindus typically believe that reincarnation includes transmigration of souls between animal, plant, and even inanimate forms, New Age believers typically restrict reincarnation to human and celestial forms. Reincarnation generally assumes a doctrine of karma. The idea is the basis for the practice of attempting past life regression.

http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#Reincarnation

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From Christian Research Institute, the “Bible Answer Man” on the radio...

Approaches to Yoga: Karma Yoga

Karma yoga is yoga for idealists, humanitarians, activists, and ordinary people who want to pursue salvation but are unable to pursue monastic life. It seeks salvation through good works. These works can be social service or simply doing one’s job well. There is a catch, however: the karma yogi will gain nothing spiritually from his actions unless he performs them with no desire for the consequences of the actions, with no attachment to the action itself, and without viewing himself as its author, but rather, viewing God as the author of the action.

Prominent Los Angeles yoga teacher Bikram Choudhury clearly explains the role of karma yoga in attaining salvation:

Generally, a work brings as its effect or fruit either pleasure or pain. Each work adds a link to our bondage of Samsara and brings repeated births. This is the inexorable Law of Karma. But, through the practice of Karma Yoga, the effects of Karmas can be wiped out. Karma becomes barren. The same work, when done with the right mental attitude...does not add a link to our bondage. On the contrary, it purifies our heart and helps us to attain salvation through the descent of divine light or dawn of wisdom.8

http://www.equip.org/articles/karma-yoga

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From a Christian website, Lambert Dolphin (some will recognize in connection with Chuck Missler)

A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

In Hinduism, the soul and salvation are interpreted in terms of reincarnation and the law of karma. SAMSARA refers to the cycle of death and rebirth in Hinduism. The fate of the soul in each lifetime is said to be governed by the law of karma. If one builds up good karma during one’s life, one will allegedly be born in the next life in a favorable state. If one builds up bad karma during one’s life, one will allegedly be born in the next life in a less desirable state. This goes on life after life after life.

The goal, in Hinduism, is to break free from the wheel of karma and merge with the universal soul. This deliverance from samsara leads to immortality. MOKSHA is the Hindu term used for the liberation of the soul from the wheel of karma.[21] This is salvation in Hinduism. At this point, one becomes ONE with Brahman (God or the universal soul which permeates all reality).

http://paracleteforum.org/archive/email/apologetics/prophet/dialogue.html

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From Probe Ministries

Humanity’s primary problem, according to Hinduism, is that we have forgotten we are divine. The consequence is that we are subject to the Law of Karma, another important Hindu belief. This is the moral equivalent to the natural law of cause and effect. You always reap what you sow. There is no grace, there is no forgiveness, there is never any escape from consequences. It’s a very heavy burden to carry. Not only that, but Hinduism says that the consequences of our choices, both bad karma and good karma, follow us from lifetime to lifetime. This is another Hindu concept: samsara, the ever-revolving wheel of life, death, and rebirth, also known as reincarnation. A person’s karma determines the kind of body—whether human, animal, or insect—into which he or she is incarnated in the next lifetime.

The final major Hindu concept is liberation from the wheel of birth, death, and rebirth. One can only get off the reincarnation merry-go-round by realizing that the idea of the individual self is an illusion, and only the oneness of Brahman is real. There is no heaven, though—only losing one’s identity in the universal oneness.

Praise God that through the Lord Jesus, Christianity offers hope, forgiveness, grace, and a personal relationship with a personal God in heaven. Jesus means there’s a point to life.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4217743/

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Again another article from Probe Ministries...

Reincarnation is a major facet of the eastern religions of Hinduism and Buddhism. Many sects have variant views of reincarnation. Here is a general summary of the basic principles. Most hold to a pantheistic view of God. Pantheism comes from the Greek pan meaning “all” and concept of theism meaning “God.” In Pantheism, God is an impersonal force made up of all things; the universe is God and God is the universe. All created beings are an extension of or an emanation from God.

Living things possess a physical body and an immaterial entity called the soul, life force, or Jiva. At death, the life force separates from the body and takes a new physical form. The law of karma determines what form the individual will take. This law teaches that one’s thoughts, words, and deeds have an ethical consequence, fixing one’s lot in future existences.{2} Our present state is the result of actions and intentions performed in a previous life. The amount of good or bad karma attained in our present life will determine if one returns in a higher or a lower form of existence.

One will endure hundreds, even millions of reincarnations, either evolving into a higher or lower form of life to work off the debt of karma. This cycle of reincarnation is called the law of samsara. Eventually one hopes to work off all bad karma and free oneself from the reincarnation cycle and attain unity with the divine. This freeing from the cycle of reincarnation is called moksha. The soul is viewed as imprisoned in a body and must be freed to attain unity with the divine.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4217665/

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And on and on it goes... no end to the Christian information regarding Karma being a facet of a false religion and not from the Bible and has nothing in relation to the teachings of Jesus or the Bible...

[curiosity]

You claim to find a quote that explains "one way a birth computer printout could have been obtained without a Hawaiian birth."

Yet in the very first sentence of the document you quote says:

In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii...

LOL. You birthers are really entertaining.

[RummyChick]

Pay attention. The framers of the Constitution were worried about slaves when they wrote it. Not long after they signed it..they passed an Act that used the words WHITE and FREE when defining citizenship. They obviously wanted to exclude chattel slaves and Indians.

It also said that children born overseas to citizens (already defined) were natural born citizens as long as the father had at some time been a resident.

What was a citizen? Read the 1790 act.

The 1790 Act shows what was on their mind.

They later changed that law. But if you are going to carry on about Vattel then you need to look at the 1790 act because that truly shows what was on their mind.

Btw, Jefferson and Adams helped draft that law.

Why did they later change it? Different theories as to why but nevertheless, they wrote it and George Washington signed it into law.

[editor-surveyor]

You just don’t get it, do you?

Every false religion on Earth is copied from the real thing, with the Savior replaced with pure works.

All your raving is nothing!

[editor-surveyor]

Whatever you’re on, you are using way too much of it.

Madison quoted Vattel in many letters.

[editor-surveyor]

British intrusion was on their mind.

Read their letters.

[Star Traveler]

Sorry, but it has nothing at all in relation to what the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has to say in the Bible... there’s *nothing* to copy there, to get Karma or Hinduism... it’s made out of “whole cloth” with no connection to the Bible or what Jesus said...

There are plenty of Christian teaching and ministry sites that give all the information that anyone needs to see to know that there’s *nothing* in common, and no connection, not *even* a “copying” of it...

It’s “pure invention”, out of nothing...