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1 posted on 06/14/2009 8:57:35 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Sikhs have a long history with the U.S. military, serving in World Wars I and II, the Korean and Vietnam wars, and in the Persian Gulf.

how many precisely, I have no quibble with Sikhs really but rules are rules...esp in the military

2 posted on 06/14/2009 9:00:32 AM PDT by wardaddy (Obama may lie better than Slick did.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

US Army shooting itself in the foot. Sikhs have served with honor defending this country in the past and the Brits seeing how fearsome warriors they make had no problem with their turbans and facial head serving King/Queen and country.


3 posted on 06/14/2009 9:00:51 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The Army can solve this by creating a special unit of Sikhs, thus allowing them to wear their turnans, keep their facial hair, etc.


5 posted on 06/14/2009 9:02:42 AM PDT by cranked
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The uniform is what it is. There are no turbans. You cannot have a beard because your protective gas mask will not seal properly with one. Like it or not, there are good reasons for the rules.


6 posted on 06/14/2009 9:03:08 AM PDT by edpc (01010111 01010100 01000110 00111111)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Military service is in Capt. Kamaljit Singh Kalsi's blood. But his plans to go on active duty in July are now on hold. An Army policy from the 1980s that regulates the wearing of religious items would mean he would need to shave his beard and remove the turban he wears in accordance with his religious precepts.

Regulations on facial hair and scalp hair length date from WW I and have nothing to do with prohibitions on religious items. They have to do with ensuring that gas masks make a seal with the skin around the nose and mouth in the matter of the former and in giving lice fewer places to hang out in the latter.

7 posted on 06/14/2009 9:03:46 AM PDT by SampleMan (Socialism enslaves you & kills your soul.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
.... The British Police Sikh Association is pushing for development of bulletproof turbans. That would allow Sikhs to be part of firearms units, since safety helmets don't fit over them.

Already invented.


8 posted on 06/14/2009 9:04:00 AM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The only thing you get to publically demonstrate in the wearing of the uniform, is that you are an American. This mans head isn’t in the right place.


9 posted on 06/14/2009 9:05:24 AM PDT by DesertRhino (Dogs earn the title of "man's best friend", Muslims hate dogs,,add that up.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Sikhs have a long history with the U.S. military,

Ok, then why can’t the modern day ones respect the fact that their predecessors accepted this policy.


10 posted on 06/14/2009 9:06:54 AM PDT by A_Former_Democrat
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

This debate pops up about every ten years. In the past there have been some minor accommodations... very short beards and small turbans. Then the question of where they carry the little curved knife.


12 posted on 06/14/2009 9:09:56 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

If you join an organization that wears a UNIFORM by choice, then you wear the uniform... SIMPLE!


15 posted on 06/14/2009 9:13:08 AM PDT by Mr. K (physically unabel to proofreed (<---oops))
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

17 posted on 06/14/2009 9:15:50 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The Sikhs are an honorable warrior race and were among the best troops in the British army where they were always allowed to wear their turbans and beards. The US Army is lucky to have them. I believe they have won at least 6 Victoria Crosses.

Sikhs

19 posted on 06/14/2009 9:21:08 AM PDT by Larry381 ("in the final instance civilization is always saved by a platoon of soldiers" Oswald Spengler)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Huh. I was stationed at Redstone Arsenal, AL in 1994, and we had a sergeant major who wore the turban and had the beard. I never thought twice about it. Very cool guy, too.


25 posted on 06/14/2009 9:27:10 AM PDT by RabidBartender (Democracy fails when the majority starts voting themselves presents from the public treasury - unk.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Before you people comment you should learn something about the Sikhs.

Here is a quick "schooling" for you on the "Five K's".

The "five K's" they are required to wear are (with description as to why).

1. Kes or unshorn hair, regarded as a symbol of saintliness. Guru Nanak started the practice of keeping the hair unshorn. The keeping of hair in its natural state is regarded as living in harmony with the will of God, and is a symbol of the Khalsa brotherhood and the Sikh faith. Hair is an integral part of the human body created by God and Sikhism call for its preservation. The shaving or cutting of hair is one of the four taboos or Kurehats.

2. Kangha or the comb is necessary to keep the hair clean and tidy. A Sikh must comb his hair twice a day and tie his turban neatly. The Gurus wore turbans and commanded the Sikhs to wear turbans for the protection of the hair, and promotion of social identity and cohesion. It has thus become an essential part of the Sikh dress.

3. Kara or the steel bracelet symbolizes restrain from evil deeds. It is worn on the right wrist and reminds the Sikh of the vows taken by him, that is, he is a servant of the Guru and should not do anything which may bring shame or disgrace. When he looks at the Kara, he is made to think twice before doing anything evil with his hands.

4. Kachh or the soldiers shorts must be worn at all times. It reminds the Sikh of the need for self-restrain over passions and desires. Apart from its moral significance, it ensures briskness during action and freedom of movement at all times. It is a smart dress as compared to the loose dhoti which most Indian wore at that time.

5. Kirpan or the sword is the emblem of courage and self-defense. It symbolizes dignity and self-reliance, the capacity and readiness to always defend the weak and the oppressed. It helps sustain one's martial spirit and the determination to sacrifice oneself in order to defend truth, oppression and Sikh moral values.

They are some of the greatest and bravest warriors around as the British understood quite well-they rank right up there with the Gurkha's. The moral code they live by is very strict and honorable.

Also, after what the Moslems have done to their people in the Punjab over the centuries and especially after India was partitioned in 1947 there is very little love in them for any Moslem.

31 posted on 06/14/2009 9:40:51 AM PDT by Nahanni
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Sikhs have a long history with the U.S. military, serving in World Wars I and II, the Korean and Vietnam wars, and in the Persian Gulf.?

Oh, yeah, we could never have even fielded an armed forces without Sikhs I'm sure. How many served? This PC exaggeration got old years ago.

Bend this rule and there will be a long line of individuals from other groups with their list of exceptions they must have. Armed forces are uniform for many valid reasons.

40 posted on 06/14/2009 9:58:17 AM PDT by Will88
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The Sikhs were responsible for stopping the Islamification of India. They are indeed fierce and honorable soldiers. However, as a former combat infantryman I don't know how they will be able to utilize proper headgear and gasmasks or maintain proper field hygiene.
43 posted on 06/14/2009 10:01:43 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
How about instead encouraging them to form a defense contractor, the membership made up entirely of Sikhs?

I'll bet that would be a mighty fine outfit.

58 posted on 06/14/2009 10:22:21 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (RATs...nothing more than Bald Haired Hippies!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
My better half used to work in the Chemical Corps, back in the day. She used to work on Johnston Atoll, inspecting and maintaining the chemical weapon stockpiles. She says that the issue pro-mask the Army uses is completely useless against most real agents, and that it's practically suicide to employ in real life. More of a 'feel good' device than a real protective measure. (They used full rubber suits with independent oxygen.)

So, I understand the 'beard won't work with pro-mask' argument, but that issue is almost a moot point.

61 posted on 06/14/2009 10:30:42 AM PDT by Steel Wolf (Oh, well. Back to the drawing board....)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Lose the headgear or leave the Army. End of discussion.


65 posted on 06/14/2009 10:37:20 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

I fully support the Sikhs on this issue. The only value of uniformity is support logistics, and they are no great issue. The nonsense excuse of protective masks is just that. A large percentage of the male black soldiers in the military cannot use protective masks either because of a common facial skin condition.

Sikhs are generally fine soldiers. Theirs is a disciplined and militant religion of the entrepreneurial Indian middle class, they dominate the leadership roles of the Indian army, and they are loyal members of whatever army in which they serve. They have demonstrated remarkable performance in combat, lead orderly and polite lives, and are committed to doing the best job possible.

I would strongly caution against segregating Sikhs in their own units, because they provide both performance and leadership examples to any unit in which they serve.


71 posted on 06/14/2009 11:20:10 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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