Posted on 06/03/2009 8:22:21 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
How many socialists would subscribe to creationism vs. darwinism?
And speaking of free markets, how does THAT fit with the left suing and stifling all dissent anytime their cult is examined a little too closely for them?
It seriously tickles me that these loons don't understand evolution is the liberal position, no matter how many times they smear creation/ID.
In the liberal world, down is up, up is down.
The tagline might as well scream....LOOK-AT-ME...I'M A LIBERAL! (And dunce and liberal are interchangeable.)
I think that some solid conservatives believe in macro-evolution. I fail to understand it, but I wouldn’t throw someone to the wolves b/c of one (imo) very wrongheaded belief. Bob
You must have me confused with your fellow revolutionary evolutionists.
==Your little simile tag-line is saying that ID destroys evolution akin to how socialism destroys free markets, YES?
LOL...I just noticed that myself. Is it any wonder that the darwiniacs are going the way of the dodo?
That's definitely backwards.
The evo crowd is the one trying to have a government endorsed monopoly on the teaching of creation accounts in the public school.
The creationist and ID crowd, is willing to have all viewpoints considered.
The free market of thinking allows debate, it doesn't sue it into silence.
I thought it was kinda funny because he’s admitting that ID, without any help from the taxpayers, the schools, the government, or the courts, destroys evolution. I, of course completely agree with Steve-b that it is destroying a good thing. But I consider this a startling evo-admission nonetheless.
Thanks for the ping!
The more I “debate” on these threads, the more and more I’m convinced not only are the evos NOT wedded to just ONE liberal belief (evolution); but many mascarade as conservatives all together, as evidenced on other sites by using an Obama logo...etc. etc. etc.
Thrown to the wolves?
They ARE the wolves!
Care to provide the Constitutional clause that states this?
Alabama 1901, Preamble. We the people of the State of Alabama ... invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution ...
Alaska 1956, Preamble. We, the people of Alaska, grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land ...
Arizona 1911, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arizona, grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...
Arkansas 1874, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Arkansas, grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government ...
California 1879, Preamble. We, the People of the State of California, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ...
Colorado 1876, Preamble. We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe ...
Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy ...
Delaware 1897, Preamble. Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences ...
Florida 1885, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Florida, grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty ... establish this Constitution ...
Georgia 1777, Preamble. We, the people of Georgia, relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...
Hawaii 1959, Preamble. We, the people of Hawaii, Grateful for Divine Guidance ... establish this Constitution ...
Idaho 1889, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Idaho, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings ...
Illinois 1870, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors ...
Indiana 1851, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Indiana, grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to chose our form of government ...
Iowa 1857, Preamble. We, the People of the State of Iowa, grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings ... establish this Constitution ...
Kansas 1859, Preamble. We, the people of Kansas, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges ... establish this Constitution ...
Kentucky 1891, Preamble. We, the people of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties ...
Louisiana 1921, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Louisiana, grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy ...
Maine 1820, Preamble. We the People of Maine ... acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity ... and imploring His aid and direction ...
Maryland 1776, Preamble. We, the people of the state of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty ...
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble. We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe... in the course of His Providence, an opportunity ... and devoutly imploring His direction ...
Michigan 1908, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Michigan, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
Minnesota, 1857, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings ...
Mississippi 1890, Preamble. We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work ...
Missouri 1945, Preamble. We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness ... establish this Constitution ...
Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ... establish this Constitution ...
Nebraska 1875, Preamble. We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
Nevada 1864, Preamble. We the people of the State of Nevada, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom ... establish this Constitution ...
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V. Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience ...
New Jersey 1844, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors..
New Mexico 1911, Preamble. We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty ...
New York 1846, Preamble. We, the people of the State of New York, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings ...
North Carolina 1868, Preamble. We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for ... our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those ...
North Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of North Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain...
Ohio 1852, Preamble. We the people of the state of Ohio, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common ...
Oklahoma 1907, Preamble. Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty ... establish this ...
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences ...
Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble. We, the people of Pennsylvania, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance ...
Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island ... grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing ...
South Carolina, 1778, Preamble. We, the people of the State of South Carolina ... grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution ...
South Dakota 1889, Preamble. We, the people of South Dakota, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience ...
Texas 1845, Preamble. We the People of the Republic of Texas, acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God ...
Utah 1896, Preamble. Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we ... establish this Constitution ...
Vermont 1777, Preamble. Whereas all government ought to ... enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ...
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI ... Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator ... can be directed only by Reason ... and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other ...
Washington 1889, Preamble. We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution ...
West Virginia 1872, Preamble. Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia ... reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ...
Wisconsin 1848, Preamble. We, the people of Wisconsin, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility ...
Wyoming 1890, Preamble. We, the people of the State of Wyoming, grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties ... establish this Constitution ...
Exactly how does the US Constitution “assume” that all rights were bestowed to us by our “Creator” (and by “Creator,” I presume you are referring to the same vague and rather pagan “Nature’s God” that is referenced in the Declaration of Independence)?
Is there some incorporation provision that you believe exists? If not, then the Constitution “assumes” that all rights were bestowed to us by our Creator in the same way that the Dictionary “assumes” that all words were bestowed to us by our Creator.
The Declaration of Independence refers to it here:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.Notice how it does not state:
We hold no truths to be self-evident except as discovered via Methodological Naturalism, that all organisms are ultimately evolved based on chance, that they are endowed by a mindless chemical process from a mindless universal algorithm with uncertain unalienable illusions, that among these are a delusion of life, and the pursuit of happenstance.Now, you were referring to this (and it is not a “vague and rather pagan” reference):
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.Which comes from Sir William Blackstone’s (an English judge and law professor) four-volume Commentaries on the Laws of England. Thomas Jefferson once commented that American lawyers used Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England with the same dedication and reverence that Muslims used the Koran.
Blackstone’s influence is not only apparent in our American government documents, the Commentaries became the major foundation for the American system of jurisprudence for decades. The fundamental precept was that civil laws could not contradict the laws of God revealed either through nature or the Bible.But there was actually a much bigger influence - care to guess?
- David Barton, Original Intent,
A group of contemporary political scientists embarked on an ambitious ten-year project (beginning in the early 1970’s) to analyze the political writings from the Founding Era (1760-1805). Those writings were examined with the goal of isolating and identifying the specific political sources cited amidst the debates in the establishment of American government. < snip >[T]hat one direct source of inspiration for their ideas was cited far and away more than any other. In fact, the Founders cited this source four times more often than either Montesquieu or Blackstone and twelve times more often than Lock. What was that source? It was the Bible-accounting for 34 percent of the direct quotes in the political writings of the Founding Era.
- Source
In any event, I'm still not seeing any explanation about exactly how the US Constitution “assumes” that all rights are bestowed by our “Creator.” Are you finding this “assumption” in some penumbra of the Constitution, rather like the right to privacy? (And as an aside, which you will probably focus on once again, if the the “Creator” is a reference to the Christian God and Jesus Christ, why so mealy-mouthed about it? Why not just explicitly reference the Christian God and Jesus Christ?)
Are you an atheist?
No. Are you a politician?
Now, back to the question. Exactly how does the US Constitution “assume” that all rights are bestowed by our “Creator.” Are you finding this “assumption” in some penumbra of the Constitution, rather like the right to privacy?
Christian? What is your belief? (and don’t be “mealy-mouthed about it”)
Lutheran. ELCA. Confirmed 1965, Christ the King Lutheran Church, Windsor Conn. (at that time ALC, and principally a German/Swedish congregation). Specific enough?
Now, back to the question. Exactly how does the US Constitution “assume” that all rights are bestowed by our “Creator.” Are you finding this “assumption” in some penumbra of the Constitution, rather like the right to privacy?
(And note, I’m neither interested in, nor so rude as to ask about, your beliefs, especially since they have nothing whatsoever to do with the question at hand.)
Looking through your post history I see that you are a lawyer – a Christian lawyer. You are obviously familiar with Blackstone’s Commentaries and other influences that helped form our laws. I would also suspect that you have heard of The 5000 Year Leap and have an opinion about the book. I’m obviously not telling you anything new here and you seem to be looking for a ‘gotcha’ to exploit (maybe I’m wrong).
That said, I used two words that you’ve focused on, “assumed” and “Creator”. You are wanting to know how it’s ‘assumed’ the Creator bestowed our rights and you also seem to want me to specify the Creator’s identity.
1) How is it ‘assumed’ the Creator bestowed our rights? Natural Law, whether it be from Roman or Judeo Christian, assumed ‘a creator’.
2) Who is the Creator? The founders intentionally made this and other references generic for freedom of worship.
Interesting and straight forward answer. I’ll respond tomorrow. Presently boarding a plane in Budapest.
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