FReepmail me to get on or off
Ping me if you find one I've missed.
Posted on 05/18/2009 4:23:42 AM PDT by Delacon
The markup, which could stretch over several days, probably provides House Republicans with their best opportunity for offering changes to a bill that will likely see limited amendments on the floor.
“Our folks are united against cap-and-trade,” Energy and Commerce member Fred Upton (R-Mich.) said of the carbon control policy being pushed by Democrats.
Last week, Democrats agreed among themselves on a plan setting national standards for renewable energy and electricity use. Moreover, the plan would limit carbon emissions through a cap-and-trade system that would auction off or give away credits for emitting greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide.
Ranking member Joe Barton (R-Texas) will offer an alternative plan that would still set carbon emission standards for new coal and natural gas plants but grandfather in all existing plants. Current plants would receive accelerated depreciation on technology that they install to improve their efficiency.
Barton — a longtime ally of the oil industry and skeptic of the scientific basis of global warming — believes the Democratic bill does not provide companies enough time to develop technologies that could limit carbon emissions. He said the plans for limiting carbon should be held off on until at least 2015.
Barton and Upton said they will oppose any bill that calls for cap-and-trade, saying they believe such a system would send energy prices soaring. Upton said he doubts there are 60 votes in the Senate needed to advance a bill with cap-and-trade provisions.
But another group of Republicans wrote a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) calling for a more conciliatory approach and outlining provisions that must be in the bill to win their support. The group includes Energy and Commerce member Mary Bono Mack (Calif.) and Reps. Vernon Ehlers (Mich.), Mark Kirk (Ill.), Mike Castle (Del.), John McHugh (N.Y.) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Fla.).
The current legislation “fails to reflect the current economic challenges which all Americans face and fails to include major opportunities for achieving energy independence,” the GOP lawmakers wrote. They want the final bill to call for the safe use of coal and nuclear energy, require compliance by other industrial nations and keep energy costs in check.
Despite the coming onslaught of GOP amendments, Energy and Commerce Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) said he expects the committee to pass the bill before lawmakers leave at the end of the week for the Memorial Day recess.
The agreement among committee Democrats — worked out after two weeks of arduous negotiations — addressed concerns raised by some Members from coal- and oil-producing states by giving carbon emitters more pollution credits and phasing in the new standards at a slower rate.
The lead negotiator for the moderate Democrats, Rep. Rick Boucher (Va.), who hails from a coal-rich part of Virginia, said he would vote for the bill in committee this week and is urging his colleagues to follow suit.
But Boucher has “remaining concerns” that he intends to address as the legislation moves to the floor. Pelosi said she wants the bill passed before lawmakers leave for August recess.
Already, Waxman has given in on some concerns raised by moderate Democrats about rising energy prices by agreeing to offer free pollution credits to some utility companies. Waxman said he made the concession “primarily to protect the rate payer.”
This afternoon’s session of the markup is unlikely to get beyond opening statements from the 59-member panel.
ping
Mark Kirk. Every time.
B.S. Waxman didn't make concessions to primarily protect the rate payer. He bought off several dems opposed to the bill by promising to give utility companies within their states carbon credits that they could sell to other businesses not so lucky to have powerful lobbyists in congress. This won't protect the rate payer. We are going to get slammed.
Economic Suicide
It will be 38 degrees here in Central VA and frost in the Valley.... Pelosi, after her ill advised breakdown, and her brethren hold no credibility on anything at all so if they do this they/we will pay for it as we become Argentina.
Absolutely NUTS without India, China and Brazil at the table as an all or nothing gambit
Why bother, sit on your hands, The fraud will out itself.
I’m finishing a book called The Ghost Map. It’s about the 1854 cholera epidemic in Soho, London. The Brand street pump epidemic. The book did a very good job of explaining the miasma theory of disease which was debunked soon after this epidemic. He explained that the sense of smell is the most primitive and therefore any scientific theory which involves the sense of smell is very difficult to debunk. The way he explained it made me keep thinking of “climate change” and Al Gore. It was also in the mid 19th century that the concept of big government first began to arise - the idea that a central government should involve itself directly in people’s lives. Finally, he gave a great analysis of a classic case of unintended consequences. At about this time the people who were pushing the miasma theory of disease, the intelligencia and politicians, decided that the solution to the problem was to outlaw all the private septic tanks in people’s backyards and basements. That did make the city smell better but the wonderful engineering feat of channeling all that waste into the Themes also turned the river into an open sewer and a breeding place for disease. Cholera spiked. Good book. I recommend it although towards the end he rambles about all the green philosophy and goes on and on about how wonderful cities are.
Exactly right, This is a massive tax on everyone for the benefit of the chosen elites. Nothing more. It is being festered on us with the acceptance of a brainwashed mass of mind-numbed bots who just adore the BO, and who suck up the Media’s felonious lies.
and again, no sunspots today....http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/sunspots/
Y'see.
I read it too and now recall his strange diatribe at the end.
Absolutely NUTS without India, China and Brazil at the table as an all or nothing gambit There fixed it.
lol
Sent:
Dear Represenative Castle,
I am writing you to ask that you oppose the American Clean Energy and Security Act that hits the floor today. This bill will raise the cost of everything while not achieving what it sets out to do which is reduce global warming. It will cost Americans jobs as companys move their factories to countries that don’t have a cap and trade policy and for those companies that can’t move, they will be at a competitive disadvantage with countries like India and China. This bill will open the door to massive corruption as energy companies and other special interest look for ways to game the system. Cap and trade is nothing more than a regressive tax that will hit the middle and lower classes the hardest at a time when we are already reeling from the recession. Reports are out that you and others are interested in some sort of compromise. I urge you to not compromise at all. This bill is that bad. I hope that you will stand with most other republican representatives and make every effort to see this bill defeated. When election time comes, Americans will need a clear choice between the party that raised prices on everything, lost american jobs and emptied our wallets and the party that tried to prevent all this. Please be on the right side.
Respectfully,
Here’s what Senator Mel Martinez (RINO-FL) wrote in response to my letter:
“I believe that the threat of climate change is real, and I am working with my colleagues in the Senate to regulate and reduce greenhouse emissions. As we consider climate change legislation, we need to ensure that the laws we pass will in fact reduce carbon emissions and lessen the threat of catastrophic climate change.”
This so-called Republican senator is kissing Obama’s butt.
The whole idea of “man-made global warming” is a pagan religion. Obama and his Congressional Socialists (which includes a number of RINOS) think they are high priests of Global Warming, beating on the drums, praying to the Greenhouse Gas gods, spreading ignorance around the country.
Obama wants Cap & Trade, which would be a death sentence for our economy. I have to wonder if Obama and the other Socialist supporters of this legislation are aware of basic facts. For example: 1) greenhouse gases are not evil, they are essential to keeping the earth warm enough for humans; 2) the most common greenhouse gas is water vapor; 3) CO2 is not pollution, it is essential for plants and humans; 4) CO2 is only a trace element in the atmosphere at 380 parts per million; 5) humans and their activities account for only 3% of CO2 emissions each year; 6) the earth has had cycles of cooling and warming about every 1,500 years due to variations in the sun’s activity and our orbit around the sun; 7) these cycles are beyond human control; 8) about 1,000 years ago, Greenland had vineyards; 9) the earth is cooling now, not warming relative to prior decades; and 10) a major reduction of sun spots in recent years suggests a coming mini ice age.
An excerpt from the March 2009 issue of The American Spectator: “All scientists agree that if man-made global warming is real, it would leave a fingerprint in the form of temperatures increasing with altitude in the tropical troposphere portion of the atmosphere up to a hotspot about 10 kilometers above the surface, reflecting the pattern of CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Warming due to solar variations or other natural causes would not leave such a fingerprint pattern. Recently, higher-quality temperature data from balloons and satellites ... enables us to settle the man-made global warming debate definitively. The data from weather balloons shows the opposite pattern: no increasing warming with altitude, but rather a slight cooling with no hotspot. The satellite data shows the same result: no increasing temperature with altitude, no hotspot, no fingerprint, maybe again a slight cooling with altitude. Game over. QED. The global warming empire is rattling around but has not and cannot come up with an effective response. The data is the data. The science is the science. Man-made global warming is a hoax developed to serve powerful special interests.” (This was written by Peter Ferrara.)
Obama may not know these things, or he may be choosing to ignore the facts in order to create a huge new bureaucracy of socialist government control over our lives. Cap & trade would cause a huge Decrease in GDP along with a huge Increase in energy costs for Americans, and massive unemployment - probably higher than 15%.
Everyone should write to his or her Congressmoron. Remind them of the facts and the damage that would be caused by “cap & trade”.
“Everyone should write to his or her Congressmoron. Remind them of the facts and the damage that would be caused by “cap & trade””.
Good post. Contact your congress critters.
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
Anyone read the latest EPA ruling on Ethanol and biofuel standards. When the “best science available” is not supporting the political blow-hards, then form a committee of “peers” to reach consensus. Dilution is the solution, even on scientific committees!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20090514/ts_usnews/ethanolrulingatestforobamaadministration
They are trying to make capitalism fail.
Then comes the fascism.
I sometimes think that the libs have such a strangle hold on our culture that even people like Steven Johnson, who saw the brilliance of John Snow cannot make the leap to see the insanity of Al Gore. Who was the “Minister of Health?” Edwin ..... wick? I listened to the audio so can’t flip back to find his name. He was the Al Gore of his time.
I read it last summer, or maybe longer ago than that, if that’s possible, so I don’t remember any details.
AGW is total BS!
WHY? We don't need any more plans. We neeeeeed to stop with all the regulations already. Sheeeeeze.
And republicans keep wondering why they have lost complete control of our government. Does our party honestly think they will regain control by "offering alternative plans?" Grow some balls. Take a stand and put a stop to this crap or elect me and I'll do it!
spokeshave wrote: “and again, no sunspots today...”
I’m watching this as well. NCDC is still showing higher than normal global temperatures (compared to 1961-90 base years).
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2009/apr/global.html
But if we are really going into another Maunder or Dalton Minimum we should eventually see some impact on global temperatures.
Before we spend trillions of dollars on solar power, windmills, carbon capture, cap and trade and battery cars we should wait and sort this out.
He said the plans for limiting carbon should be held off on until at least 2015...
But another group of Republicans wrote a letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) calling for a more conciliatory approach and outlining provisions that must be in the bill to win their support. The group includes Energy and Commerce member Mary Bono Mack (Calif.) and Reps. Vernon Ehlers (Mich.), Mark Kirk (Ill.), Mike Castle (Del.), John McHugh (N.Y.) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Fla.).
[sigh] Democrats at a 10% discount.
We've already given up before the battle is joined. Instead of standing against a horrible piece of legislation built on the fallacy that CO2 is harmful, the GOP is trying appeasement.
If Iran declared plans to take over Israel and commit genocide, the GOP would try to get them to kill only adults and spare children.
We should not compromise on cap & tax. We should work to defeat it, not make it slightly less horrible.
America is dying at the hand of The Obamassiah and these worthless bags of puss and excrement fiddle away at creating another bogus tax scam.
You would think that our “leaders” would realize that we face face more serious problems than this politically contrived nonsense.
Members of Congress who support the cap and trade I think will be very surprised when they get back home and voters are howling about 50% increases in their electric bills. Cap and trade should be dubbed "the light switch tax" that you pay every time you flip a switch.
Legislative Debate:
R: Show me the data
D: We don’t need data, just look at this polar bear on the floating ice chunk.
R: That photo proves nothing.
D: The American people put us in power to solve this problem
R: What can I do to help?
” The group includes Energy and Commerce member Mary Bono Mack (Calif.) and Reps. Vernon Ehlers (Mich.), Mark Kirk (Ill.), Mike Castle (Del.), John McHugh (N.Y.) and Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (Fla.). “
What in the hell is wrong with these Republicans? Always some willing to compromise everything away. CAP and Trade is a horrible thing that will hurt our ability to refine fuels necessary to produce energy. There is no middle ground on this bad idea.
This climate change crap is such BS. They just want the money and it will end up going into the pockets. I don’t think they even believe it themselves. It’s a scam.
Why bother, sit on your hands, The fraud will out itself.I am not so optimistic. First they’ll waste and burn trillions of tax dollars on this nonsense, then if armageddon fails to appear, they’ll take credit for saving the planet, and when the economy is in ruins because of insane taxation and regulation, and ever increasing costs for welfare and unemployment benefits, they’ll claim that this is proof that capitalism has failed, and the only way out is to introduce total socialism all the way. And people will believe them, again and again and again.
He BELIEVES in a threat!!!! So, it hasn't happened yet. It's all about power to regulate your life. It has nothing to do with scientific fact. Can anybody prove that climate change is man caused? No.
Its CHEAT AND STEAL!
yeah I am glad I am not the only one that notices this crap. its like the budget debate, even Hannity blovating about the republicans having a better plan...oooo 400 billion cheaper thats some plan there fellows. then they say well we knew it didnt have a shot. well if you knew it didnt have a shot you shouldve a provided a 1 or 2 trillion dollar plan at least it would look serious.
oh exactly the dems might feel nice and oh yeah lets go with the republican's plan after all we arent giving up much and they are giving up their principals its a win-win folks.
Republicans will take their first shot at derailing a top Democratic priority -- climate change legislation -- by offering as many as 200 amendments when the House Energy and Commerce Committee begins marking up its bill this afternoon... "Our folks are united against cap-and-trade," Energy and Commerce member Fred Upton (R-Mich.) said of the carbon control policy being pushed by Democrats.
It seems the only temperature changes are the Congress’ feelings towards each other. But that’s just me, of course
“This so-called Republican senator is kissing Obama’s butt....”
Disgusting...when will we learn not to support these idiots who pretend to be R?
The Republicans will not challenge the basic premise. Our government is already committing us to hundreds of billions of dollars on a wholly imaginary concept.
Anthropogenic Global Warming .... or Cooling? No such goddam thing and one gets mighty tired waiting for some elected Republican to say so. One gets even more tired waiting for a campaigning Republican to say so.
E.G., RINOCrist on the need for drilling off Florida.
And so it will. There's really nothing to stop it. This is the equivalent of the dims fabricating a way to tax the air we breathe.
I pray to God Upton isn't just blowing smoke when he speaks of unity. Cap and trade will turn this country into an Ayn Rand novel faster than you can say...something, really fast.
Good comment. The Democrats do not believe much in the War Against Terrorism but they do believe in a “War Against Climate Change”. Basically if the enemy is big business and industrial society, than that is easier to regulate and less messy than fighting idiots who want to blow themselves up and others to dictate what they believe the world needs.
I have told somebody that the Democrats really long for a Pre-Industrial Revolution society through fiscal liberalism and their environmentalism pushes it also. If they can dictate through the terms of class warfare, a heavily ideological issue than they could. Note that this has nothing to do with helping our economy, nor does it have to do with fighting those Radical Muslims.
“I am not so optimistic. First they’ll waste and burn trillions of tax dollars on this nonsense, then if armageddon fails to appear, they’ll take credit for saving the planet, and when the economy is in ruins because of insane taxation and regulation, and ever increasing costs for welfare and unemployment benefits, they’ll claim that this is proof that capitalism has failed, and the only way out is to introduce total socialism all the way. And people will believe them, again and again and again”.
Oy.
California has oil reserves off its coast but, instead of drilling, they would rather be a financial basket case, with the lowest credit rating in the nation, and a bloated government.
Hey, let’s do that to the whole country. Sounds like fun.
I read an article(I think I posted it here) a while back that said the largest source of oil that hits CA beaches comes from natural seepage from the ocean floor and that drilling would actually reduce pressure and reduce this seepage and that this seepage far exceeds any amount of oil seepage that comes from drilling. But go tell that to the CA enviro whackos.
Another more vulgar term might be more accurate.........
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
