Iranian's are Persians... very different than the arabs .
Posted on 05/02/2009 1:45:10 PM PDT by Cyrus the Great
Many Americans seem to entertain the illusion that Iranians are Arabs. This may be due to the fact that many people in both communities practise Islam, which I'll mention below. Another coincidence that may have contributed to this confusion is the apparent similarity of the names Iran and Iraq. It is true that the Persian language and the Arabic share the same alphabet, namely the Arabic alphabet, which was imposed upon the Iranians centuries ago. But originally Persian had its own alphabet. Anyway, in Arabic script the names of the countries are entirely different, 'Iraq' beginning with the letter 'ain' and 'Iran' beginning with the letter 'alif'. The words 'Iranian' and 'Persian' are virtually synonymous, the former being the preferred term nowadays.
The Arabic word 'Iraq' means 'Veins' and, apparently, refers to the Euphrates and the Tigris Rivers.
But the clincher is that the word 'Iran' is cognate with the English word 'Aryan', as the Iranians are Aryan, that is, Indo-European, while the Arabs, as is well known, are Semitic, so ethnologically there's a definite disjunction. The Indo-European languages, which probably coincide in fair measure with ethnicity, are divided into Centum and Satem groups. Centum languages further divide into Germanic, Italic, Celtic and Greek, while Satem languages divide into Balto-Slavic, Indo-Iranian, Albanian and Armenian. Thus we find among Indo-European languages such widely divergent specimens as English, German, Spanish, French, Greek, Russian, Persian (Farsi), Hindi and many others. There are a great number of Arabic loan words in Persian, just as there are a great number of Latin loan words in English, but no one classifies English as an Italic language, nor should anyone classify Persian as a Semitic language. There are Persian loan words in Arabic too, but etymological dictionaries of the Arabic language are scarce, if they exist at all, and one is often left guessing which words might be from Persian.
Semitic languages are a subgroup of Afro-Asiatic languages. Only two strictly Semitic languages survive--Arabic and Hebrew. Extinct Semitic languages include Assyrian, Phoenician, Aramaic and others. Among languages in other subgroups of the Afro-Asiatic languages are Amharic, Tigrinya and Hausa of Ethiopia, Chad and Nigeria.
This ethno-linguistic disjunction is not merely an academic hypothesis. I have met many, many Arabs and Iranians, and there is a definite Arab look and a definite Iranian look. It's not infallible, of course, but I think I could probably tell them apart 75% of the time.
But even more conclusive is the historical aspect. Now we know that all ethnic groups must have sprung from primitive human beings, so likely they're all of great antiquity. But when we speak of 'history', we generally mean written records. And here we see that Persians appear on the scene much in advance of Arabs.
Generally, Persian history is said to have begun with King Cyrus the Great, who unified Persia and conquered vast tracts of land. He is also famous for liberating the Jews from captivity in Babylon around 538 BC, as is amply recorded in the Bible, in the Books of Isaiah, Daniel and Ezra. The next four Persian kings were Cambyses, Darius, Xerxes and Artaxerxes, all in the Bible. These names are all in the Greco-English spellings. Xerxes, whose name is Khashayarsha in Persian, Achashverosh in Hebrew and Ahasuerus in the English Bible, is vividly portrayed in the Book of Esther as the rescuer of the Jews from the persecutions of Haman, which is celebrated to this day by Jews as Purim, the Feast of Lots. All of these kings are also famous for their exploits in the Middle East, Anatolia, Greece and Egypt. Much later, another Persian king, Shapur I, defeated the Roman emperor, Valerian. And their have been many, many others.
In antiquity, Persia had various religious, such as Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, Mazdaism and Manichaeism, all to be largely supplanted by Islam. A more recent Iranian religion is the Baha'i faith.
As far as I know, the Arabs enter history around 305 AD, with the Nabataean Inscriptions, but these are scant. Their real entrance into history was the appearance of Mohammed (570-632 AD) Arabs conquered Persia in the seventh century, spreading Islam. Subsequently, in the 10th and 11th century, Turks took over the leadership of Islam, so Islamic history is not strictly the same thing as Arabic history. In the coming centuries Islam would extend its sway all the way from China and Indonesia to Spain. But the Ottoman Empire, once the world's greatest power, was a Turkish, rather than Arabic or Persian, Islamic Sultanate.
So Iranians are definitely not Arabs.
I am more pedantic than most, but I could only get halfway through this without, well, deciding that I don’t care enough to finish!
Useful info BTTT.
Different towels.
Interesting cultural overview. Thanks for posting!
I should point out, though, that the original name for Iran and its people is actually Pahlavi. The name has come to the West as Farsi, or in the hellenic form as Persia.
Agreed. I could care less. They are like the difference between gonorrhea and syphilis. Left untreated they will both kill you.
“Thank you for posting...Americans are so clueless about Middle East ethnicities and just assume they’re all “Arabs.”
Well there you go, assuming all Americans are clueless about the Middle East. Maybe you’re clueless about what American’s really think?
A debatable point.
Earlier waves of Semites out of the Arabian desert included the Arameans, for sure, and quite possibly the Akkadians. Both of whom were around a couple thousand years before the Persians entered the historical record. In fact the Persian Empire used Aramean as its primary administrative language.
As so often is the case, it depends on how you define "Arab."
The ancient Persians had some very positive attributes. I think Cyrus was the first ancient King to brag about how benevolent and just he was instead of how vicious a killer.
The Persians did fare poorly against the ancient Greeks in combat. On the other hand they defeated just about everyone else.
It is a shame what radical Islam has done to a once great people.
All Muslims are suspect. Their birthplace is irrelevant.
And Italians aren't Germans, but they both practiced fascism.
And Arabs and Persians have both sold their souls to a false prophet.
And what makes you confident that Americans *aren’t* clueless? Especially when you don’t give any evidence to the contrary.
I’ve talked to many people, seen many online comments here, read many articles, where people assume Iranians are Arabs. No not *everyone* thinks that, but given the distribution of people who do, it’s not off the charts to say that a large number of people don’t have a good idea of the diversity of the M.E.
Their culture also is suffering from the same european-ish problem of failing to reproduce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fertility_rate_world_map_2.png
Would you rather have lead or arsenic in your water?
I have know a number of expatriate people FROM Iran, who preferred to be called “Persian”.
I liked and respected most of them.
They almost universally hold the current regime in Tehran in total contempt.
We need all the allies we can muster to combat the evil that threatens us now.
Good article, means nothing.
That's a pretty broad brush you have there, punk.
Later on the Phoenicians, a semitic language speaking people, derived their alphabet from the Egyptian form of writing.
I suspect the writer of this article was trying to limit the term "Arab" to a handful of Bedouin tribes who became known to Roman tax collectors shortly after their conquest of Felix Arabia.
None of that matters. The original population in what is called Mesopotamia is pretty much the same today as it was when the Semites overran the Sumerians and adopted their written language. Persians (or Aryans) arrived much later than that. Their history includes the conquest of Babylon (more than once too).
No doubt the Aryans left behind a modicum of DNA.
The Mongols, who arrived much letter, left behind much more than a modicum of DNA ~ in fact, they caused such devastation in Mesopotamia they managed to change the ethnic background of every tribe in the region. The perception that Iraqis look different than Iranians is probably more a consequence of recent Mongol admixture and not of earlier Aryan admixture.
There is a Zen Buddhist document called "The Gateless Gate". It's supposed to have all the "basics" in it ~ and it's pretty basic. White folks get mentioned one time ~ reading The Fox I noticed "The Persian Had a Red Beard".
No doubt Mongol Buddhists deep into Zen roamed the streets of the burned out city of Baghdad searching for Red Bearded Persians ~ which would, of course, be a difference. Alas, unlike in the time of the Zen Masters (500 AD or there abouts) today's Persians no longer have red beards so the search would be unfruitful.
“Wise men do not need to debate. If you need to debate, you are not wise.” —Chinese proverb
oh yeah, pls don’t forget “they are Persians” and therefore think they are superior to ordinary “black” Arabs, snort
Weak nations invoke principles, strong nations invoke cannons - Chinese proverb
There seems to be a Chinese proverb for everything.
“Turks took over the leadership of Islam, so Islamic history is not strictly the same thing as Arabic history. In the coming centuries Islam would extend its sway all the way from China and Indonesia to Spain. But the Ottoman Empire, once the world’s greatest power, was a Turkish, rather than Arabic or Persian, Islamic Sultanate.”
And by way of a note:
actually, the “Turks” are just the most recent peoples to the region of Anatolia now called “Turkey” [after the Hittites, Assyrians, Greeks, Persians, Romans] ; they arrived in Anatolia in the 11th Century, as the Seljuks, a Turkic tribe from central Asia; they obtained Islam (probably by way of Persia) early in the 11th Century, and shortly after proceeded on a route of conquest from the Hindu Kush to eastern Anatolia and from Central Asia to the Persian Gulf.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seljuq_Empire
ping to you
What’s wrong with learning the truth? You shouldn’t run away from it.
Thanks for the ping. The opening post said the important things.
I’d add that Iranians also have greater food, finer women, better music and art. :o)
Plus they are by far the most receptive people in the region for Western culture.
“It’s the religion, stupid!” Or their stupid religion of death.
Sura (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution of Muslims is worse than slaughter of non-believers...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Sura (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared," Kill any Jew who falls under your power."
Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”
الاسلام هو شر لا مثيل لها ، ويجب القضاء عليه
at first I thought the wheel was going to be re-invented but I read on- nice insights
You wrote:
“No doubt Mongol Buddhists deep into Zen roamed the streets of the burned out city of Baghdad searching for Red Bearded Persians...”
Persians in Iraq rather than Iran being sought out by Zen Buddhist Mongols who were actually Mahayana Buddhists?
” today’s Persians no longer have red beards so the search would be unfruitful.”
Red hair is still seen in Iran even today: http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/1524
“...Iranians are Aryan”
The Persian people are good people and are generally, outside of the psycho mullahs, friendly towards the U.S.
However Aryan? Does that term even mean anything? No offense but Ahmadinejad does not look like an “Aryan.” Short, big nosed, dark...in fact, he looks more like a Julius Streicher Der Strumer/ modern day Iranian & Arab press Caricature of a Jew than real Jews do. Arab leaders also look more like these caricatures than real Jews do (look at Mubarak). Moreover, Iranians have more per capita nose jobs than any other people on earth. Sorry for not being PC.
Iranian vodka (hooch) is preferable.
I agree, but neither I nor this article am saying that just because Iranians aren’t Arabs doesn’t mean we shouldn’t treat them as an enemy (we should), it’s simply correcting out (again) the misconception that Persians are Arabs.
Now, regarding Buddhism among the Mongols, Zen had already reached Persia ~ as it had reached every part of the Mongol Empire. Given the way Buddhism is structured, focusing on a stretch of verses in a single Sutra is not really seen as being different from the folks who focus on a totally different stretch of verses in a different Sutra.
Think of it as a "Big Tent, Party On Dudes".
Understand that all Iranians are not like this, but unfortunately the moderates are usually the ones that like to see others do their dirty work and are unwilling to sacrifice to take their country back.
Iranians can frequently be identified by the “the size of the sail”, but there are a mix of people in their makeup. It’s probably a “recessive” in every population.
Iranian's are Persians... very different than the arabs .
That poster assumes we don’t know the truth. Do you also we don’t know nothin’?
Perhaps, you do but many don’t. There’s nothing wrong with being informed. Thank you!
No problem. I am most sorry for the Arab Iranians. They really got the shaft.
Saddam Hussein was relying heavily on Iran’s 2% Arab populace on the border with Iraq in Khuzestan (70% or more of Iran’s oil is located there), however, the Iranian Arabs fought harder against Saddam than even the Persians. No amount of Arab sentiment worked because they see themselves as Iranians first.
There’s a billion of em...que rim shot....
You bet your Farsi.
That they are. I worked with a guy from Iran and I made the very poor choice of asking him if he was Iranian. The little man darn near took my head off. He turned red in the face and started yelling “I’m Persian damnit”.
yup... my best friend in college was Persian and was sent to America by his parents after the fall of the Shah.
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