Posted on 04/11/2009 5:56:12 AM PDT by kellynla
When Somali Muslim pirates raided the Alabama on Wednesday, the U.S.-flagged cargo ship was cruising the Indian Ocean en route to Mombassa. The 21 Americans in the crew were trying to deliver tons of food and other agricultural materials for the World Food Program, to be distributed among destitute Muslims in that Kenyan port city, and beyond.
Hearts and minds that has been the theme music of the anti-anti-terrorism chorus for eight years. George W. Bush freed 50 million Muslims from tyranny and gave them a chance to make better lives even as the rigors of doing so devoured his presidency all the while launching, for Africa, the most generously funded program for AIDS prevention and treatment in history. For his trouble, he was branded an unfeeling, unilateralist cowboy by Democrats and the international Left, the erstwhile champions of nation-building and universal health care.
His successor has been only too quick to cement the slander. When not bowing to the Saudi monarch (admittedly, only slightly more nauseating than Bushs I Wanna Hold Your Hand jaunt with His Oil Highness), Pres. Barack Obama bleated across Europe that America has been arrogant. By his lights, our actions since 9/11 (which include writing constitutions for Iraq and Afghanistan that enshrined sharia, the Muslim legal code, as governing law) have suggested we are at war with Islam.
For Barack Obama, hearts and minds are about Barack Obama things to be fondly turned to him at the expense of a country that does more for human rights, and more for Muslims, than any nation has ever done. Indeed, Obamas signature (and thankfully failed) legislative proposal during his short warm-up act in the Senate was the Global Poverty bill, a trillion-dollar redistribution from the American taxpayer to the international community. Back then, Senator Obama chided his countrymen for not doing their part while the lavish American foreign-aid spigot far and away the worlds most munificent poured out the perennial $21 billion, not counting additional billions in emergency military expeditions to aid victims of earthquake, tsunami, and war.
But as the hearts-and-minds game goes on, the international community on the receiving end stands unimpressed as ever. Turns out its a jungle out there. What impresses, as all Americas enemies from the Barbary pirates through Osama bin Laden have always known, is the strong horse against the weak horse. What makes possible global trade, which turns into American wealth, which turns into unparalleled American largesse, is American might American might and an American commitment to use that might as necessary to ensure a civilized global order.
Civilized is a much-misunderstood word, thanks to the rule of law crowd that is making our planet an increasingly dangerous place. Civilization is not an evolution of mankind but the imposition of human good on human evil. It is not a historical inevitability. It is a battle that has to be fought every day, because evil doesnt recede willingly before the wheels of progress.
There is nothing less civilized than rewarding evil and thus guaranteeing more of it. High-minded as it is commonly made to sound, it is not civilized to appease evil, to treat it with dignity and respect, to rationalize its root causes, to equivocate about whether evil really is evil, and, when all else fails, to ignore it to purge the very mention of its name in the vain hope that it will just go away. Evil doesnt do nuance. It finds you, it tests you, and you either fight it or youre part of the problem.
The men who founded our country and crafted our Constitution understood this. They understood that the rule of law was not a faux-civilized counterweight to the exhibition of might. Might, instead, is the firm underpinning of law and of our civilization. The Constitution explicitly recognized that the United States would have enemies; it provided Congress with the power to raise military forces that would fight them; it made the chief executive the commander-in-chief, concentrating in the presidency all the power the nation could muster to preserve itself by repelling evil. It did not regard evil as having a point of view, much less a right to counsel.
Thats not our position anymore. The scourge of piracy was virtually wiped out in 19th century because its practitioners were regarded as barbarians enemies of the human race (hostis humani generis, as Bret Stephens recently reminded us in a brilliant Wall Street Journal essay). They derived no comfort from the rule of law, for it was not a mark of civilization to give them comfort. The same is true of unlawful enemy combatants, terrorists who scoffed at the customs of civilized warfare. To regard them as mere criminals, to assume the duty of trying to understand why they would brutalize innocents, to arm them with rights against civilized society, was not civilized.
We dont see it that way anymore. Evil is now just another negotiation. Pirates and terrorists are better known for their human rights than for their inhuman wrongs. On Thursday, Americas commander-in-chief didnt want to talk about the pirates Guys, were talking about housing right now, he chided a reporter who dared to raise the topic as the Somalis held the American ships captain hostage. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, meanwhile, was dispatched to assure the public that the world would come together to deal with this criminal activity a relief if you were wondering whether the naval destroyer on the scene was equipped with Miranda-warning cards.
This is the self-destructive straitjacket for which transnational progressives are fitting us. Indeed, the Law of the Sea Treaty a compact Obama would commit us to has hopelessly complicated the rules of engagement under which the pirates have thrived, just as Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions (a treaty Ronald Reagan was prudent enough to reject) has become an offensive weapon for jihadists everywhere. Having harnessed ourselves, we are once again the weak horse.
Except for one thing: The Americans on the Alabama, like the Americans on Flight 93, didnt wait for the international community to send the pirates a strong letter. They saw evil, they took it on, and as a result they took their ship and their lives back. The president may not think the United States is a particularly exceptional country, but you can bet Islamic radicals on land and sea noticed that dealing with a U.S. crew is an exceptional experience. There remains something in the American character that wont slide so easily into the straitjacket.
“but what exactly is the solution?”
no need in telling the world what my fellow Marines are gonna do...
you are AWARE that the muzzies view these websites...
If my comments bother you then you are more than welcome to quit the thread, or ignore me.
Sorry. I play percentatges. I will go into a firefight with a guy who HAS practiced or has been there before. You stay with the low percentage “We don’t need no stinkin’ practice. Most perps DON’T practice. That would be the advantage you have.
I never said, “Don’t practice.” In my case, I’d fired perhaps 10,000 rounds thru the .22...but practice on the range is NOT the same as previous experience.
Still, in ANY firefight, I’d rather be armed than not. And THAT is the point - arm the ships with something so that fighting back is possible.
"Article 110 of the U.N.'s Law of the Sea Convention -- ratified by most nations, but not by the U.S. -- enjoins naval ships from simply firing on suspected pirates. Instead, they are required first to send over a boarding party to inquire of the pirates whether they are, in fact, pirates. A recent U.N. Security Council resolution allows foreign navies to pursue pirates into Somali waters -- provided Somalia's tottering government agrees -- but the resolution expires next week. As for the idea of laying waste, Stephen Decatur-like, to the pirate's prospering capital port city of Eyl, this too would require U.N. authorization. Yesterday, a shippers' organization asked NATO to blockade the Somali coast. NATO promptly declined"
-- from WSJ essay linked by McCarthy at NRO, well worth reading: Why Don't We Hang Pirates Anymore?
We haven't yet ratified the LOS Convention, but it's on the transnational progressive agenda of Obama and Congressional Democrats.
And I thank you for your service, BUT you know as well as the next guy who ever saw combat, it’s one thing to be trained to kill and quite another to do the deed!
I just get tired of reading these posts from these FR “keyboard cowboys” who if they were ever in a “firefight” they’d probably shiite all over themselves!
I guess I’ve just seen too many dead Marines...
these posters throw around war like it’s some kind of computer game!
Yes we agree! No 22s though. LOL
I thank you for your service as well. My Dad was killed in a helicopter crash in Vietnam in ‘72...his 3rd war. He never told me anything about his combat experiences - although my Mom told us later that he had nightmares regularly. And he never told my Mom what they were about.
I have no ideas what tactics would be best for dealing with this problem. I do believe that it is better for the Captain to die, if need be, than for the US to be seen as weak, or unable to act because one human life is too precious for us to protect all the thousands who will follow that path in years to come.
no need in telling the world what my fellow Marines are gonna do...you are AWARE that the muzzies view these websites...
Seriously, that is one weak a$$ answer. So you know what your fellow marines are going to do? Really? You can say whatever you like here—it doesn’t mean that the AD military leadership is going to follow your advice one iota. If you don’t know what to do, that’s fine—but you come off sounding like a blowhard.
BTW—I am retired AF. And I know enough to understand that once you’re off AD, you’re out of the loop. And the longer you’re out, the less your opinion is worth. You can speculate all you want and it doesn’t mean Jack.
1. Their maritime insurance carriers will steeply raise their insurance rates.
2. In many ports it is illegal for civilian vessels to enter if they possess weapons.
3. Various International Laws and Treaties have progressively hamstrung civilian maritime self-defense. IOW, when guns are outlawed, only outlaws (or pirates) will have guns.
4. Most carriers have standing orders for the Captain and crew to give pirates what they want and not resist. It's a "liability" and lawyer thing, making it cheaper to surrender and submit to robbery and kidnapping or murder than resist and face years of court costs and lawsuit liability. The insurance companies have built "ransoms" into their operating costs.
Frankly, the seas and seafaring choke points are increasingly dangerous places, and most of the really dangerous areas are infested by Muslim pirates who operate with impunity. They prey not only on commercial shipping but private vessels as well.
Yes, that is a good paragraph. Where is it from? I’d like to reference it.
I do agree the West has become so civilized that we’ve lost our edge. Our adversaries smell weakness and our response doesn’t help.
IMHO, a big part of the problem is that there is almost no incentive for the pirates to stop what they are doing. You need to deter them on several levels. Plaing superior weapons & trained personnel on the ships would help. But that would raise the cost of shipping and related wrongful-death lawsuits. So, you also need to make an example of these pirate communities so that no one would contemplate doing it for some time to come. Unfortunately, that would not be perceived as “civilized”, so it will not happen. Pinprick strikes might be just, but they seem to have zero long term deterrent value.
Obama’s rule of law is catching on around the world rule #1 there is no law wing it.
I read this book recently. If you haven't read it, you'd probably appreciate it.
It's well-researched and supports and confirms your points, plus adds two more. One is that a U.S.-flagged ship with an all-U.S. crew has become a real rarity these days, and the Indonesian and Chinese pirates in particular have gotten really good at planting insiders on prospective target ships. Arm the crew, and you also arm the "inside" men.
Another is that in this era of bigger-than-supertankers, owners are more afraid of gunfire possibly starting a fire and thereby causing them to lose the ship, the cargo, and years of Exxon Valdez-type environmental lawsuits than they are of paying ransom to pirates.
I guess it all depends on who you'd rather pay ransom and tribute to: a bunch of pirates or Greenpeace. And the advantage the pirates hold here is that you can reason with pirates.
The paragraph I quoted is from the column by Andrew McCarthy in the original post. Go to the link at the top of this thread.
Now enough about Obama testing the rule of law...that's racist! ohh.
Well spoken....words to live by!
yep....we LOST, They won.......until the repeal of LOST!
wow...
payment will be in Euros...
good points, and they're already at 'different perspective on reality'! they dumped their satphone overboard, thinking that somehow it was 'tipping off' the good captain! These guys are amateurs taking advantage of the new LOST world! UN and Obozo offerings notwithstanding! HS dropouts with jon boats trumping the world's navies, holding hundreds of 'hostages' to LOST. Since the 'elders' will continue to enjoy the world's 'generosity' to their 'coast guard', waiting for them to do anything will be like waiting for Obozo to do anything!
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