Posted on 11/20/2008 9:21:12 AM PST by Calpernia
This is a letter writing action thread. I’m not arguing a case here with you.
I think it’s worth addressing now in terms of new legislation or even a Constitutional amendment if necessary, clarifying what sort of “proof” is required, and what the procedures and standing requirements for challenges are — in other words, effective going forward, not retroactively. What’s getting lost in the heated, but not terribly rational debates on this topic, is that there really is no way to prove when or where anyone was born or who their parents really were (unless the claimed parents are living and willing to submit to DNA testing, but I don’t know what law could legitimately be used to force the latter).
Different states have different laws re birth certificate issuance, and it used to be common for birth certificates to be issued showing adoptive parents as the natural parents. I don’t think all states actually require birth certificates, and I’m even more sure that many did not require them back in the 1960s. And if a child is born in a foreign country, to US citizen parents, the birth certificate issuance will be a matter of the laws of that country — should we really let other countries’ laws determine whether or not someone is eligible to be President of the United States? And several studies have shown that a very large percentage of babies born in some US hospitals (those few where the studies have been conducted) are not the genetic offspring of the fathers named on their birth certificates — and presumably very few of those children grow up knowing the father on their birth certificate isn’t their biological father.
Ultimately, the problem is that there is no way for any individual to actually know with certainty the details of their own birth. I’m told I was born in the US, but also that I was conceived in one Asian country and narrowly missed being born in another Asian country as my mother travelled back to the US. I have a birth certificate from a hospital in the US, but it doesn’t have my given name on it (official copies carry a footnote at the bottom showing the name that was given months later per an “addendum”). But do I actually know for sure that I was born there? Or could that have been a sister I never heard about, and who died in infancy, who was born in that hospital? Was I actually adopted as a replacement, from one of the several European countries that my parents also lived and travelled in around the same time?
Both of my (presumed) parents were US citizens living overseas as US government employees. But realizing that there’s no way that even I, with a pretty well-documented background and well-documented US citizen parents (at least I THINK they’re really my parents) can actually know with certainty that I was born in the US, I don’t see how President-elect Obama could possibly really know whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya or somewhere else. He knows what he was always told when he was growing up, and knows (or can know) what’s on a Hawaiian birth certificate that carries the name he’s told he was given at birth and which he used at least as late as elementary school, but has no way of knowing whether any of it is really accurate information. Birth certificates are just pieces of paper.
I’m quite sure that there are thousands of children of Mexican and Central/South American immigrants here in the US who have been told by their parents that they were born here, and who believe they were born here, when in fact they were born in their parents’ native countries. Most probably don’t have birth certificates, but they have a birth date and alleged town/state (probably told they were born at home), and have plenty of people who will attest (truly or falsely) to having known them in the US since infancy or toddlerhood. When they reach an age when they really need a birth certificate for something, and realize they aren’t actually sure if they were born here, most will have no trouble getting a US birth certificate based on affidavits, if they really make up their minds to do it. And as long as this route is available for people who really were born here, to parents who for whatever reason opted for a home birth and declined to obtain a birth certificate, it’s available for people really weren’t born here.
The scope of the problem is huge, and obviously isn’t going to be resolved between now and January 20. So, yes, by all means we should pursue a clear legal framework for handling the problem, but not with regard to President-elect Obama.
Orly,
When is you case going to a hearing?
Wrong -- No candidate for President has ever provided so little verification as your beloved Obama.
The REASON you are demanding it of Obama is, transparently, that you don't like him ....
Are you a mind reader??? Do they have Constitutions in your part of the universe???
You voted for an unqualified candidate and are upset that the truth is coming out. So get over yourself!!!!
Don’t limit yourself to just Justice Thomas....Here’s contact information:
Address:
United States Supreme Court
1 First Street NE Washington DC 20543
The Supreme Court Justices are as follows:
Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts
Supreme Court Justice John Stevens
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy
Supreme Court Justice David Souter
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Ginsburg
Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer
Supreme Court Justice Samual Alito
Just received another email from the RNC’s Director of Membership Services, Sue Gazdo, for financial support. This was my response (info@gop.com):
Dear Sue:
Thank you for your email.
What is the RNC doing with regard to coordinating a formal objection to Obama’s electoral votes on January 6, 2009 during the joint session of Congress?
Many Americans find it highly offensive that Obama refuses to demonstrate he is eligible to serve as President.
Regards,
Here is my sample letter to ALL SCOTUS:
Supreme Court Justice
United States Supreme Court
1 First Street NE Washington DC 20543
November 14, 2008
Your Honor:
Our Forefather’s in their wisdom established our government in three parts to check and balance each other. They specifically stated the requirements for the office of the president. You have sworn to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Unfortunately they did not establish who would vet each candidate to determine eligibility.
Nor did they establish “standing” if such a case were ever to be presented.. Standing , a arbitrary term established for the smooth working of the judiciary system, is not a condition established by the Constitution
Currently there are two different cases waiting your review: 08A407 and 08-4340. There are at least seventeen more in the lower courts hoping to establish verification or establish who is responsible to qualify/disqualify candidates for the office of President. “We The People” are about to be in crisis if you chose to ignore these cases. We the People all have standing.
*********************************************************
I inserted personl part here you may wish to quote the consitution.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The SCOTUS must put this crisis to rest. I am begging you , The Supreme Court of the United States MUST hear all the evidence presented in the case(s). and establish that a precedence for establishing qualification is achieved. A “rule of Law” one way or the other must be decided. The Constitution must remain intact, only qualified persons shall hold the office of the Presidency.
Sincerely,
XXXXXXXX
No candidate for President has EVER provided ANY "verification".
as your beloved Obama
Don't blame me - I voted for Sarah.
I've been here for over ten years, read what I write before you leap to conclusions.
You voted for an unqualified candidate
Don't blame me - I voted for Sarah.
and now you are upset that the truth is coming out
The truth is out there.
Have not had a return call, but have been out most of day. Will call again in the mid morning.
Content:
Gave him my particulars and then the case # at the SCOTUS cases. Asked whether Obama BC had been vetted here, What steps had been taken to protect the electors and the SOS from being named in lawsuits similar to the seventeen in twelve states that were already in progress.
That 3 different places of birth had been exposed and that Alan Keyes in his case states “One man can’t be born in three places.”
That in all probability BO was born in Africa (family witnesses there) and not eligible to be POTUS....And their office should demand his BC to confirm or dispute.
frog in a pot,
I love your response to the RNC. Let us know if you get a response. Highly unlikely but I hope she shared your response with others.
They better have a proactive plan. I need to let go of expectations here and hope they surprise me.
You mean, Obama?
Called my SOS and they said someone would call me back. I followed up with an email to SOS and Director of Elections but “nada” so far.
Let us know what you find out.
Thank you for the compliment; but I’m not Orly. I don’t know where this case is in California courts.
I just think that many FReepers are very sardonic because of several years of having our hopes rise and and then painfully crashed into the ground. From the GOP betraying our core beliefs; a Presidential candidate with only slightly more affect and enthusiasm than a car coasting to a stop after running out of gas; the sieve we call our border; our biased media; the imprisonment of Ramos and Campean. It’s been nonstop disappointment.
We cannot let this one go, FReepers. He either is or he isn’t qualified. He needs to put this to rest.
Thank you!
Was advised by a supportive aide in my Senator’s local office to also contact the state office of the RNC. Will share anything returned.
I included the RNC national email address and urge everyone to contact them as well as their state politicans. This is of even greater importance than the recent illegal immigration issue and look what we acoomplished with that.
Tremendous presentation!
Also, the U.S. Supreme Court will hold conference on the Obama citizenship issue on December 5, 2008. If 4 of 9 Justices vote in favor of, the case will go to oral review.
This evolves from Donofrio vs. Wells in New Jersey.
These cases are strengthening each other.
http://www.rallycongress.com/constitutional-qualification/1244
“So, yes, by all means we should pursue a clear legal framework for handling the problem, but not with regard to President-elect Obama.”
I just wanted to point out to you that Obama is NOT the “President-Elect”, yet. Obama will not be the President-Elect until after the Electoral College casts their votes on December 15th, and those votes are certified (that is also provided that the Presidential Electors - as expected - cast their votes for Obama).
“No candidate for President has EVER provided ANY “verification”.”
Point of fact - McCain released all of his records, so technically they have been provided, even though they were not requested officially. Obama on the other hand has REFUSED to supply any information during ANY of these court cases - even after he was subpoenaed. Instead, they (Obama and the DNC) have spent THOUSANDS, if not millions of dollars to avoid producing these simple documents.
These cases would’ve disappeared overnight, and those bringing the cases would’ve been made to look like fools if he would’ve just provided a copy of his BC to the courts - it’s not like he doesn’t (supposedly) have a BC - after all he posted it on his website for the world to see. Why not just send it to the judge (i.e. in the Berg case) and get ALL of these cases dismissed as soon as they’ve been filed?
It honestly makes no sense at all. It defies logic when one considers the actions of Obama and the DNC in light of these questions, and now a legal case sitting on Thomas’ desk in the Supreme Court. Again, it absolutely defies ALL logic - unless there is something to hide that is.
Bookmark
Technically true, of course. But as far as potential for political chaos, rioting, and thus an emboldened al-Qaeda salivating over the opportunities presented by a distracted and socially/politically/financially unstable US are concerned, he’s the President-elect now.
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