Doubt about Muhammad's Existence Poses Threat to Islamic Religious Education

Qantara.de ^ | 18 sept 2008 | Peter Philipp

[AdmSmith]

Muhammad Sven Kalisch is an Islamic researcher at the University of Münster. He is also the first person in Germany to hold a Chair of Islamic Religion. Kalisch's recent public admission that he is unsure whether the Prophet Muhammad was actually a historical person has got him into hot water.

The plan to train teachers to teach Islamic religious education at German schools has suffered a major setback in recent days. The Co-ordination Council of Muslims in Germany (KRM), to which the four largest Muslim organisations in Germany belong, has discontinued its co-operation with the Centre for Religious Studies at the University of Münster, which became the first centre of its kind in Germany to offer teacher-training courses for teachers of Islamic religion.

The dispute centres around the Director of the centre, Professor Muhammad Sven Kalisch, who converted to Islam at the age of fifteen. Speaking in a radio interview, Kalisch said that following extensive research and study, he had come to what is for a Muslim a particularly controversial conclusion, namely that the Prophet may not in fact have been a historical person.

An academic debate

"The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not," said Kalisch. "I believe that there is no definite answer to this question, although I must admit that I tend more towards the view that he did not exist. However, one must be able to say so and one must be able to have an academic debate about it."

The Co-ordination Council of Muslims is not, however, willing to enter into such an academic debate. The spokesman for the council, Ali Kizilkaya, says that this is neither the job of the council, nor is it the point at issue.

"Well, if the Prophet never existed, then the Koran does not exist. And if the Koran does not exist, what is left?" asks Kizilkaya. "This would mean that we would have to abolish the religion altogether. No, we do not believe that this is the case: we are convinced that the Prophet did indeed exist and that the Koran is the word of God."

He went on to say that as far as the Co-ordination Council of Muslims is concerned, this is not about the question of the academic freedom of the researcher, but about whether someone with these views and convictions, someone who harbours doubts about the foundation of a particular religion, is the right person to train teachers of that religion.

This is why the council not only withdrew from the advisory council of the centre, but also called on young Muslims not to apply for the course on offer there.

[AdmSmith]

Give Kalish 24/7 protection!

full article http://qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-812/i.html

[AdmSmith]

http://qantara.de/webcom/show_article.php/_c-478/_nr-812/i.html

[AdmSmith]

“The results were such that it is my conviction that it cannot be proven whether Muhammad actually lived or not,” said Kalisch. “I believe that there is no definite answer to this question, although I must admit that I tend more towards the view that he did not exist.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

LOL!

You just can’t make this stuff up.

[Brian S. Fitzgerald]

It’s hard to believe that such a pervert as Muhammet did in fact exist.

[chesley]

"Well, if the Prophet never existed, then the Koran does not exist. And if the Koran does not exist, what is left?" asks Kizilkaya. "This would mean that we would have to abolish the religion altogether

Works for me

[Radl]

I wonder if his life insurance payments are going to increase.

[steve-b]

Kalisch's recent public admission that he is unsure whether the Prophet Muhammad was actually a historical person has got him into hot water.

Hope he doesn't lose his head over it.

[Cicero]

Pretty silly. Who does he think started all that trouble? Either Mohammed existed, or some guy pretending to be Mohammed.

No, the real question is, what kind of guy was Muhammed? And the record is pretty clear. Murderer, liar, rapist, slaver, and one of the biggest trouble makers in history.

Maybe Genghis Kahn or Stalin killed more people in their times, but Mohammed’s legacy is still bringing violence, evil, abuse of women, and slavery to the world 1400 years after his death. Not to mention a false religion that is destructive to the souls of anyone who belongs to it.

[agere_contra]

The Germans are clever. Here we’d thought they were giving way to Islam - but apparently they’ve infected it with Liberalism.

[ar15cz75]

Muhammad Sven Kalisch is an Islamic researcher at the University of Münster. He is also the first person in Germany to hold a Chair of Islamic Religion. Kalisch's recent public admission that he is unsure whether the Prophet Muhammad was actually a historical person has got him into hot water.

More like boiling oil. This will NOT turn out well. Time for a name change, Sven!

[steve-b]

Good! Reminds me of how the Borg in ST:TNG got infected with individualism....

[skimbell]

"...Doubt about Muhammad's Existence..."

who/what the hell's a Muhammad?

[GreyFriar]

interesting and life threatening for the guy.

[Pearls Before Swine]

It’s hard to believe that such a pervert as Muhammet did in fact exist.

I'd say its harder understanding why he was such a success.

[skinkinthegrass]

And if the Koran does not exist, what is left?" asks Kizilkaya. "This would mean that we would have to abolish the religion altogether. No, we do not believe that this is the case: we are convinced that the Prophet did indeed exist and that the Koran is the word of God."

.....well, well...seems like someone in Germany "gets it".
some religions; over time, seems to degenerate into a "baseless/nihilist " form...only to be revitalized
....Islam haven't ever, faced the Challenge....still in the 8th century (socially).

[Lurker]

"This would mean that we would have to abolish the religion altogether.

I can live with that.

islam is no more a religion than nazism was and it should be treated identically.

L

[Knitebane]

[JimSEA]

The anger about the professor's theory and the withdrawal of the Co-ordination Council of Muslims are likely to set back efforts to improve the integration of Muslims in Germany several steps.

And the Muslims want to integrate into German society???

On the question of a historical Mohammad, since Islam is such a well designed Medieval warrior's religion, I would believe he did exist.

[Sig Sauer P220]

No, the real question is, what kind of guy was Muhammed? And the record is pretty clear. Murderer, liar, rapist, slaver, and one of the biggest trouble makers in history.

Are you talking about Mohammed or Bill Clinton?

[mad puppy]

“academic debate” about whether MoHamHead existed will be short and bloody.

[Mojave]

As long as there are pedophiles, the spirit of Muhammad lives.

[xtinct]

Muhammad right up their with the 72 virgins fairy tale

talk about brainwashing... folks are kicking their own buckets while killing others for this tall tale.

[Condor51]

Muhammad Sven Kalisch is an Islamic researcher at the University of Münster

And within 48 hours it'll be...

Muhammad Sven Kalisch was a past Islamic researcher at the University of Münster. His passing was sudden.

Right now he couldn't get 'Life Insurance' from the Mafia.

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

One sect of this murderous cult believe their next
prophet will be born by a man.
They check their feces for lumps to see if the next
prophet might be born.

Maybe one of this sect will find a lump and name it
Muhammad.

[lonevoice]

LOL! Did you know that Achmed has his own myspace page?

[Aliska]

That took a lot of courage. I always assumed he did exist. There may be evidence to cast doubt on the authenticity of the religion apart from faith.

They don't have to worry. The Koran does exist. The question is one of authorship. I wonder if it has ever been analyzed to determine if one person wrote it or if it was a compilation of different writers.

The longer it takes to settle the question, the more it will undermine the integration project because children will get the impression that there is no place for their religion at school.

I don't see where small children would care one way or another. It would be the parents. My religion has had no place in school for a long time now. It doesn't really impact my faith; my only concerns are the values that filled the vacuum after Judeo-Christian values were de-emphasized. That would not necessarily hold true around the country, as some public schools there was more integration of religion.

[T Minus Four]

LOL! A......C......PHLEGM!!!!

[Deb]

What about that rock thingy that the Mooslims march around in Mecca? Is it just a crumby meteor or really God’s poop?

[Zionist Conspirator]

The Germans are clever. Here we’d thought they were giving way to Islam - but apparently they’ve infected it with Liberalism.

Well, considering what Kraut liberalism did to Judaism and chr*stianity, islam is doomed! In a few years all moslems except for a few "hillbillies" in the Hindu Kush mountains will all be Union Theological Seminary types.

Very creative idea to abolish a disproved religion, though. Liberal Jews and chr*stians have chosen to retain the identity of the religion they've rejected and redefine it to mean "social justice."

[AdmSmith]

What about that rock thingy that the Mooslims march around in Mecca?

It is a remnant of the earlier religion, and as it had a very high symbolic value Moh used (stole) it for his own marketing for his brand.

[AdmSmith]

“The Koran does exist. The question is one of authorship. I wonder if it has ever been analyzed to determine if one person wrote it or if it was a compilation of different writers.”

Yes, a lot can be said about this, for instance about its origin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_Of_The_Koran by
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg

[jagusafr]

Sounds like a reverse Manchurian candidate...

Colonel, USAFR

[Deb]

A HA! So he did exist!

[CholeraJoe]

He's buried in Medina, Saudi Arabia. Dig the POS up.

[Aliska]

Thank you for the links, good starting point. Cursorily scanning that information, it would seem that it may indeed have evolved over several generations and drawn from existing traditions and use of more than a single language with some inscrutable passages thrown in the mix.

[zot]

Thanks for the ping. Another dead man walking, temporarily.

[Dajjal]

Thanks for the ping.

A good book along these lines:

http://www.prometheusbooks.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=90_32&products_id=580
The Quest for Historical Muhammad by Ibn Warraq

Here's a summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_for_the_Historical_Muhammad

[expatguy]

Dead Man Walking