Posted on 08/22/2008 7:42:30 AM PDT by marktwain
OSBI agents went to gun dealers and pawnshops to create a list of .40-caliber Glock owners.
WELEETKA — Authorities working to narrow their leads in the June 8 shooting deaths of two girls used old-fashioned legwork to come up with a list of area gun owners with .40-caliber pistols, one of two weapons used in the slayings.
Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation agents knew the caliber of the guns used in the killings, so they merely checked with area gun dealers and pawnshops to determine who had bought or recently pawned .40-caliber Glocks.
"It's a typical procedure of any investigation" involving a gun, according to Jessica Brown, spokeswoman for the OSBI.
That time-consuming procedure yielded the OSBI the names of more than 60 owners of .40-caliber guns in the Weleetka area.
Consequently, the OSBI sent letters to all those gun owners, asking them to voluntarily submit their weapons for test firings over the weekend at the Okfuskee County Courthouse at Okemah.
About 40 of those gun owners showed up on Saturday and Sunday, and their weapons were fired once or twice and then returned to them.
The fired bullets and shell casings, meanwhile, were sent to a crime lab for analysis to determine if any of them match those used in the slayings of Skyla Jade Whitaker, 11, and Taylor Paschal-Placker, 13.
Brown said about five of the gun owners no longer owned the weapons, but they provided the names of the new owners.
The other 15 or so gun owners who did not show up will be checked by the OSBI to see why they didn't volunteer for the test firings.
"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help."
Because the test firing of the weapons is voluntary, Brown said there isn't any constitutional violations involved.
"It's a process of elimination," she said, noting that the tested weapons may have been loaned out by the owners or someone else may have had access to the guns.
On Monday, when the OSBI announced that it had test-fired weapons, it stated in its press release that it had sent letters to the "registered gun owners."
That prompted concern Tuesday among many in the public, who noted that Oklahoma does not have a gun-registry law nor a central database of gun owners.
Tom Harris, an agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in Tulsa, confirmed that.
According to Harris, most states, including Oklahoma, and the federal government do not have lists of registered gun owners.
He said the only way to get a listing of gun owners is by canvassing gun dealers or pawnshops individually to find out who bought weapons — as the OSBI did.
Harris said gun dealers — "federal firearms licensees" — have to fill out ATF form 4473 whenever a weapon is purchased. The form lists the buyer, the address and other pertinent information.
They also have to contact the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) to determine whether the prospective buyer can legally purchase a weapon.
Harris said the 4473 forms stay with the gun dealers and are not submitted to any government agency. They are, however, available to law enforcement.
If a gun dealer goes out of business, the 4473 forms are stored in an ATF warehouse, he said.
Although the OSBI made public that a .40-caliber weapon was used in the slayings, it is not identifying the caliber of the other gun used.
Brown would not say whether voluntary test firings would be held for the other weapon.
Authorities believe the killers are from the Weleetka area, given the remote location of the girls' slayings.
They said the killers had to be familiar with the area — N. 3890 Road (County Line Road) north of Coleman Road, about four miles northeast of Weleetka.
Skyla was visiting Taylor at her home when they decided to go for a walk that Sunday afternoon.
They walked north from Taylor's home along County Line Road to the Bad Creek bridge, a half-mile away.
Investigators said the two had made it to the bridge and were returning to Taylor's home when they were gunned down.
Their bodies were found in a shallow roadside ditch, less than 1,000 feet from the Placker home. They were found about 30 minutes after they had left for the walk.
Autopsy reports on the girls showed they had been shot a total of 13 times.
Skyla, the youngest, was shot eight times, and she suffered the most .40-caliber bullet wounds.
Authorities noted that each of the girls was shot with two weapons.
The medical examiner recovered spent bullets from their bodies and described them as small- and medium-sized.
"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help."
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Exercise your rights, be investigated. I would certainly not volunteer for any of this. Glocks are notorious for having balistic traces that are virtually indistinguishable from each other.
This is plain stupid, and a waste of tax money and investigators time.
We are the gov’t and we are here to help you.
If you’re innocent, what have you got to hide?
We just want to clear you.
And yes, there is a really big chaznce your barrel may produce similar results.
No, it is not a waste of time. It is an illustration of just how few leads this case has. If an investigative agency is reduced to doing what is little more than a random gun canvas they cannot have any other way to go.
I would have thought a .40 cal. would be considered a LARGE cal. bullet.
Dumb move on their part. They should have forced the cops to get a warrant, just on principle.
Officer Friendly should be doing ballistic tests on all LEO .40’s in that area also if there was any sincerity to the reason for this testing. JMO
So let me get this straight - A murder occurs and firearms owners submit their weapons for testing.
So I suppose the next time a woman is raped, will all men will have to submit their d**ks for testing in Oklahoma?
If I didn’t do it, I wouldn’t take my gun in.
They are essentially asking for innocent people to prove they didn’t do it. Just something hinky about that to me.
If they have so little to go on, my going in and proving that my gun did not do it doesn’t get them any closer to the killer.
And I am sure as hell not going to give anyone the chance to screw up and come to the erroneous conclusion that I did do it. Not going to happen.
Check this story out, Dave.
This article was already posted a few days ago. You can read the flame wars there.
This is f’ing chilling.
The thug who murdered these two is sitting there, with his head in his hands, worried sick, yes sick, that he got a letter from local leo's, and he needs to go down and get his firearm tested.
What to do, what to do?
What struck me about this is that it was *identical* to the technique used by police in England to obtain DNA samples, after a particularly brutal crime.
But it didn’t stop there!
It began by asking all “adult males” in a city to submit DNA, to “eliminate them as suspects”. And they did get a very high turn out. And once in the database, the police *kept* that DNA information for future reference.
Then, unrelated to that brutal crime, other cities decided to do the same, asking for “voluntary” submissions of DNA, after they had their own, if not as heinous, crimes. Again, “helpful but stupid” citizens gave up their DNA, to be added to the database.
Then, seemingly out of the blue, the English Home Office started an elaborate process to create a NATIONAL DNA database. First, with just taking involuntary DNA samples from its prisoners. Then taking DNA samples from people who had been arrested, but not convicted.
And finally, to demand DNA samples from every citizen of England.
As such, they now have a national DNA database.
Remember, as with associating guns with gun owners, the police only have to do it once, and then they know forever. This now means that to identify most of the gun owners and guns in an area, they just need to poll gun dealers say, 20 times, for the most popular gun models.
This time, they’re looking for .40 Glocks. Next time, .357 Magnum S&Ws. Etc.
Does anyone honestly believe that the federal government isn’t trying to incrementally determine who owns guns, and what type of guns they own?
They may do it more subtly than the English, or sneakily, as the case may be. But do you doubt it for a minute?
Don't give 'em any ideas.
L
That prompted concern Tuesday among many in the public, who noted that Oklahoma does not have a gun-registry law nor a central database of gun owners.
The wisdom of volunteering for testing aside, it seems like this incident establishes that the current system works, and that there's no need for a central database.
“Got probably cause, or else kiss my arse.”
I'd return a letter, certified to tell them politely “cease and desist any investigation in to my ownership of said firearm, or else you'll be hearing from my lawyer.”
CC the NRA legal team.
"Almost...and you want something besides a warrant.
In my case it's "I'm sorry, but I have been and am sworn to support and defend the Constitution, and since waiver of any constitutional right is a dimunitation or abrogation of that constitutional provision, it could be used as evidince that I do not take my constitutional oath seriously, or even result in a perjury charge against me.
Accordingly, any further request or demand by you that I waive any right guaranteed by me under the U.S. Constitution thereby constitutes a felonious soliticion or Subornation to commit perjury, a violation of federal law, Title 18 of the U.S. Criminal Code, §ection 1622.
Additionally, such a violation by a public servant such as yourself during the course of his duty constitutes felony Official Misconduct under state law, an Offense against Public Administration, and must be reported and charged as such to the full extent of the law.
If you have any additional questions for me, please have a written statement of transactional immunity prepared so that I can fully cooperate with your questioning without becoming in any way involved in criminal activity on your part."
That'd shut 'em up for good.
L
So can anybody just gather ownership information? I thought gun purchase records were destroyed shortly after FBI approval. Are gunstore owners being pressured to supply sales records? This sounds like backdoor gun registration Ad Hoc.
“to see why they didn’t volunteer”
Then it wasn’t VOLUNTARY!
Let me ask the cops something. Do they think the GUILTY person is going to take his/her gun down to the station?
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