Posted on 08/20/2008 2:11:44 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Barack Obama has painted himself into a corner by his vote against the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act.
He made this evident at Pastor Rick Warren's Aug. 17 Saddleback Showdown.
Warren asked both presidential candidates the same questions separately. Here was his best one: "At what point does a baby get human rights in your view?"
Very simple. But Obama wouldn't answer it. His now infamous response: "Well, I think that whether you are looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade."
The most adamant pro-abort will at least agree babies acquire human rights when they have completely delivered.
But Barack Obama couldn't bring himself to say, "At birth." He wouldn't confer human rights to newborns.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Dead Babies
Is there any evidence that Obama has a brain? Whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question is above my pay grade.
"Thoughtful" and 'forcefully intellectual' Obama apparently can't forcefully remember his own voting record. He recently got rated the most left-wing member in the U.S. Senate but he was also the most pro-abortion/pro-infanticide member of the Illinois Senate.
As I wrote back in March, Obama:
-- Racked up a 100 percent rating from the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, as all "moderates" do.
-- Voted against limits on government funding of abortion and voted to get Illinois to endorse embryonic stem cell "research".
-- Voted against requiring medical care for babies who survive an abortion because he doesn't think the baby is a baby and saving a dying baby would interfere with a "woman's right to choose" and that it's not infanticide. Bringing America together, that Obama.
Mustering his best argument for abortion, Obama told Pastor Rick Warren that he doesn't know when a baby becomes human because, "whether you're looking at it from a theological or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade," which means he leaves it to a higher authority to answer that -- Michelle. Yes, by all means, let's make this guy commander-in-chief! (Barack, not Michelle, that is.)
Obama quickly added that "the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground . . . is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down." According to Obama, since there were 1.31 million abortions performed in 2000, but 1.21 million in 2005, this means abortions had gone up! The latest published data (collected by the Guttmacher Institute) shows that the number of abortions had dropped every year during the period 2001 through 20005 (the latest year available). The total number of abortions performed in 2005 was 8 percent lower than in 2000. Among women aged 15 through 44, abortions were down 9 percent in 2005 compared to 2000.
Guttmacher bases its finding on a survey of all abortion providers in America. Obama bases his finding on a speech he gave in 2002.
In 2007, Obama promised pro-abortion groups that, as president, the very first bill he would sign is the "Freedom of Choice Act," which would eliminate all restrictions on abortion, at all levels of government. This must be Obama's plan to lower the number of abortions.
Obama spent the weekend running around accusing pro-life groups of doing what he does habitually -- lying. He told CBN (Christian Broadcasting Network) in an interview Saturday that the National Right to Life group was "lying" when they point out that a state anti-infanticide bill (which he voted against) mirrored exactly the federal Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which he falsely claims he would have voted for.
The federal bill -- after a 'Roe-neutral clause' was added -- passed without a single 'no' vote in both chambers and was signed into law in 2002, which records show was right around the time Obama finished Kindergarten. But, according to documents uncovered by the National Right to Life group, the state bill Obama voted to kill in his committee had exactly the same "neutrality clause" ("Senate Amendment No. 1") which Obama had been falsely claiming it lacked and that that was the reason he voted against it.
For four years, the Obamatrons had been claiming it's a lie and a smear to say that the state bill (BAIPA) that he voted against was identical to the federal bill -- then The Documents came to light. Just like liberals and Saddam claiming Iraq had no ties to terrorists, then captured documents come to light showing the opposite. What is it with these Husseins?
Obama apparently loves abortions so much, he's performing one on his own campaign. Realclearpolitics.com now shows McCain on top in the Electoral College, 274-264, leaning states included, even before the Saddleback effect fully kicks in. Up until recently, Obama was in the 300s. Right around this time in 2004, Kerry was ahead, 317-202 (H/t: Sean Hannity). Brand new LA Times/Bloomberg poll shows Obama's 12-point lead in June evaporating to a dead-heat currently.
If you're looking to pinpoint the moment Dukakis lost the '88 election, his botched answer to the death penalty question during the debates was it. Asked if his wife were raped and murdered, would he favor an irrevocable death penalty against the perp, a technocratic 'no, I wouldn't' was the best he could serve up. (He was obviously trying to shake away his chilly, technocratic image.) Put the same 'when does a baby get human rights' question to Dukakis, and it would be the same, 'sorry, ol' boy, can't answer, above my pay grade' pap that Obama offered up. The only difference being that, after giving his meandering answer, Obama's braincell was hurting.
Whether it's dead babies or what to do with Kitty Dukakis's hypothetical killer, libbies vault to the top as the least qualified to handle the moral clarity stuff. Which is why Dukakis II is going down in November, too.
Anyway, that's...
My Two Cents...
"JohnHuang2"
Unfortunately not accurate. The true feminazis just think of it as a failed medical procedures that needs to be corrected.
Which is entirely logical. What, after all, is the real difference between a baby that is 80% born and has a partial-birth procedures performed on her, and one that is 100% born and then stuck in a closet to slowly die?
It is, however, interesting that apparently few or none even among abortionists have the moral courage to put the baby to sleep to end her suffering as we would for a dog in pain. In fact, someone who did this to a puppy would face serious jail time. Only legal when performed on human babies.
Apparently humans we're killing must die in the most painful and drawn-out way possible so we can pretend we aren't really killing them. Teri Schiavo being a case in point.
Maybe now the Big O will throw himself under the bus.
“This is not the Barack Obama I knew.”
If Obama can not answer that question because “it is above his pay grade” then he has no business being a senator and voting for ANYTHING!
A package of Born Alive bills was introduced three times during Obama’s tenure.
The cornerstone bill was the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which defined legal personhood. This definition was identical to the federal BAIPA (1) which was drafted from the definition of “live birth” created by the World Health Organization in 1950 (2) and adopted by the United Nations in 1955 (3)....
Here I will only post links to Obama’s actions and votes on the cornerstone bill, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act. The bill number changed every year it was reintroduced.
2001
Senate Bill 1095 (4), Born Alive Infant Protection Act
Go here to view Obama’s “no” vote (5) in the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 28, 2001.
Transcript of Obama’s verbal opposition to Born Alive on the IL Senate floor (6), March 30, 2001, pages 84-90
Obama’s verbal oppostion to Born alive, (7) “And if we’re placing a burden on the doctor that says you have to keep alive even a previable child as long as possible and give them as much medical attention as — as is necessary to keep that child alive, then we’re probably crossing the lines in terms of unconstitutionality.” March 30, 2001
Obama’s “present” vote on the IL Senate floor ( 8 ), March 30, 2001
2002
Senate Bill 1662 ( 9 ), Born Alive Infant Protection Act
Go here to view Obama’s “no” vote in the Senate Judiciary Committee (10) on March 6, 2002. (ABC inadvertently coped bill #1663, a companion bill. The vote for the Born Alive bill, #1662, was identical.)
Transcript of Obama’s verbal opposition to Born Alive on the IL Senate floor (11), April 4, 2002, pages 28-35
Obama’s “no” vote on the IL Senate floor (12), April 4, 2002
2003
Senate Bill 1082 (13), Born Alive Infant Protection Act
Democrats took control of the IL Senate with the 2002 elections. They sent Born Alive to the infamously liberal Health & Human Services Committee, chaired by Barack Obama (14).
As can be seen on the Actions docket (15), Obama held Born Alive on March 6, 2003, from even being voted on in committee. It is also important to note from the docket that on March 13, 2003, Obama stopped the senate sponsor from adding the lately discussed clarification paragraph (16) from the federal BAIPA, to make the bills absolutely identical.
1. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h107-2175
2. http://www.who.int/healthinfo/statistics/indunder5mortality/en/
3. http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demographic/sconcerns/natality/natmethods.htm
4. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/status/920SB1095.html
5. http://www.jillstanek.com/Senate_Committee_Vote_32701.pdf
6. http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST033001.pdf
7. http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST033001.pdf
8. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls92/920SB1095_03302001_030000T.PDF
9. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet92/status/920SB1662.html
10. http://www.jillstanek.com/Senate_Committee_Vote_3502.pdf
11. http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST040402.pdf
12. http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/srollcalls92/920SB1662_04042002_014000T.pdf
14. http://www.ilga.gov/senate/committees/members.asp?GA=93&committeeID=85
Jill Stanek: "Barack Obama has painted himself into a corner by his vote against the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act.... But Barack Obama couldn't bring himself to say, "At birth." He wouldn't confer human rights to newborns."
If you went back only a few months things looked very dire for Republicans and the conservative movement. Fred Thompson was out. The Iraq War and Bush-Cheney had very high negatives, were very unpopular. It looked like this was an easy year for the Democrats. Obama has changed all of that. He has turned out to be an appalling candidate.
Obama may be the best thing for the conservative movement in a long time. His campaign has provided hilarious gaffes and fodder for Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. He should be on Rush's payroll. You have to go back to Joycelyn Elders for gaffes like this.
Obama's abortion gaffe in the Saddleback Civil Forum may be a turning point in this election. He said this on national television and that clip should be replayed over and over again. Obama has become his own one-man OPERATION CHAOS He is quickly becoming the Jimmy Carter, George McGovern, and Michael Dukakis of 2008 which must be driving liberals nuts.
They went so bananas over McCain's superior performance in the Civil Forum they got obsessed on this idea he must have broken "the Cone of Silence" and cheated. It's like they're in a wacky episode of Get Smart. Obama lost the debate and they want to blame McCain.
And now Bill and Hillary will be back for two nights at the convention. With even Michelle giving a speech, providing an opportunity for more gaffes. They'll wish they had kept her muzzled in "the Cone of Silence." Someone needs to illustrate a gaffe chart for this campaign. Like the ones Frank Luntz uses for focus group approval and disapproval of candidates' answers in debates. How many points did Obama drop in the polls for the Berlin speech, the "bitter" comment about "clinging to guns and religion," and the Civil Forum?
Apparently the Supreme Court is of the proper pay-grade.
Thanks for posting this.
One lecturer related his experience after showing, with the SLED argument, that there is no difference between a newborn and a “fetus” as far as humanity goes.
Afterwards, a couple of feminists came up to him and said “You convinced us, we’ve changed our minds”.
He said, “oh, now you understand why abortion is wrong?”
They said, “no, we’re now pro-infanticide.”
NObama had to answer with a non-answer. If he answers 'at conception' he loses the pro-choice support. If he says 'at birth' he has to face his record.
Since he basically said..."I don't know' shows he has little in the way of convictions, and will sway which ever way the wind blows.
The Dhims really want him as leader of the Free World?
Barack Obama could not tell the audience and America “when life begins” because that puts the argument of abortion into a moral delima.
While they can still NOT focus on whether it is a human being, they can look at the “bigger picture” of what happens after the baby/babies are born.
So they couch it in arguments of “a quality life” meaning everything from no birth defects (or POSSIBLY detected defects) to being a “wanted” child (some parents even “want” a child of one sex over another, “didn’t meet the chromosome test” I guess).
The father is on the hook for child support from conception up to the time the child turns 18 whether he wants the baby or not. The mother can shirk her own obligations to that child at any point and the father has no legal claim to the child. It is considered an “undue burden” to ask that she carry a child for 9 months but not to have a man carry the child and mother for 18 years.
We were told that the goal is to make abortion safe, legal, and rare.
Legal we have although some back alley clinics still operate (why is this). It is so legal that unlike a process like ear piercing (or navel piercing) or a trip to the dentist, a minor can obtain an abortion without parental consent.
Safe we don’t have as girls and women still die of internal hemoraging from abortions at licensed clinics. Has to be quite a shock to the parents when their daughters are dying from a botched abortion. What has the body count been on women who’ve died of botched abortions SINCE Roe v. Wade?
And 50 million abortions in America doesn’t sound “rare” to me. Neither does Whoopi Goldberg’s admitted “6 or 7” abortions.
Professor Singer doesn't agree.
It has never been a "Free World" that they want him to lead.
I believe I understand why Obama failed so miserably at the Rick Warren Forum. And the Mainstream Media continues to try to defend Obama with all sorts of stupid commentary.
But, the real reason I believe he failed is that Obama is listening to the leadership in the Mainline Protestant churches for advice on how to win over the conservative church goers.
As you well know, three years ago the leaders of the Mainline Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, and UCC) made a pact with the devil, so to speak, when they aligned themselves with Senator Harry Reid. The group’s mission was to get more church goers to vote for Democrats.
Well, Harry Reid and the other Democrats forgot one important fact.
Namely, the church goers do not listen to what leadership in the Presbyterian, Methodist, Episcopal, Lutheran, and UCC churches have to say. Instead, many of the churchgoers in those denominations are leaving for greener fields.
Thus, I can envision Obama being prepared for the Saturday Night Massacre and the Mainline Protestant church leaders are telling Obama——“be sure to point out we are a ‘big tent’ country”, “be sure to never say ‘Jesus is the only way to salvation””, etc etc.
She’s already saved many babies, but now she will be one of the most important witnesses against Obama and will help save generations from his Marxist presidency. She's a true American hero.
Lets pray for Jill.
Pro-Life PING
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I think the George Soros group that wants to take down America has been looking to hand pick a servant president since Klinton left office. Barack has been their “man”. He’s a sponge for Marist ideology and doesn’t think for himself. He’s pliable and will take orders. He was to be their puppet president. Soros should have spent some money for Barry to go to debate classes. Without his TelePrompter he’s a fish out of water.
Pastor Warren’s forum exposed Barry for the shallow idiot that he is. Rush did his usual excellent job pointing that out on Monday’s excursion.
The presiedential run of Barry Soetoro proves there is only and emptiness at the heart of the once great democrat party.
Then Pouty Pootie Putin comes along threatening Poland from his position inside the invaded Georgia of the old Soviet Union and exposes yet another dangerous vacuousness in Barry which would cause Barry to fold up like a cheap suit placed in soft-sider luggage and tossed into the hold of a jumbo jet!
If the GOP doesn't exploit this emtiness gaping at the American people over issues such as drilling for our own resources instead of pouring our treasure out of the country to enemies and socialist governments, then the dead democrat party will have a death grip of 60 plus on the Senate and an overwhelming majority in the House. And folks, that sort of rule by the deadness Democrats will be much worse reality than any movie on the day of the living dead! Even Ronaldus Magnus couldn't defeat such a soulless enemy within the confines of America.
The handlers for Barry Soetoro Obama programmed him to recite the reference to Matthew 25:40 at Rick Warren's interview. But they glaringly didn't have a clue what Jesus was teaching else they would have chosen some passage that wouldn't point so dramatically to the democrat satanic assault on the most innocent and vulnerable among us. Given Barry's defense of the killing-by-neglect history with his opposition to born alive infants protection bills, how stupid can Barry's handlers be? Barry's ignorant reference renewed emphasis of the alive children being slaughtered in the rites demcorats have used for their empowerment for decades now--at the democrat's willing sacrifice of more than 40,000,000 alive unborn as bloody sacrifice to democrat power with dumbed down voters.
Ghastly doesn't even begin to cover this evil rising in our midst. But we should welcome it because it could ultimately drive a stake through the heart of this now demonically possessed political party. And if anyone doubts demons run that party, listen to Nancy Pelicanosi worshipfully utter that God has blessed US with the rise of thsi Marxist Obama! Then listen to Barry proclaim that allowing the life of the survivors of abortion attempts to be protected by Illinois law would invoke the 14th Amendment and thus be 'anti-abortion'! Democrats are the abortion murder party.
BTW, it is so darn nice to see a John Huang2 thread again!
Have they made a Soros-as-Obama puppet yet?
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