Posted on 07/05/2008 6:02:02 PM PDT by shrinkermd
Under pressure from the toughest crackdown on illegal immigration in two decades, employers across the country are fighting back in state legislatures, the federal courts and city halls.
Business groups have resisted measures that would revoke the licenses of employers of illegal immigrants. They are proposing alternatives that would revise federal rules for verifying the identity documents of new hires and would expand programs to bring legal immigrant laborers.
Though the pushback is coming from both Democrats and Republicans, in many places it is reopening the rift over immigration that troubled the Republican Party last year. Businesses, generally Republican stalwarts, are standing up to others within the party who accuse them of undercutting border enforcement and jeopardizing American jobs by hiring illegal immigrants as cheap labor.
Employers in Arizona were stung by a law passed last year by the Republican-controlled Legislature that revokes the licenses of businesses caught twice with illegal immigrants. They won approval in this year’s session of a narrowing of that law making clear that it did not apply to workers hired before this year.
Last week, an Arizona employers’ group submitted more than 284,000 signatures — far more than needed — for a November ballot initiative that would make the 2007 law even friendlier to employers.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
If they’re hiring illegals they should be tough guys behind bars.
This is leaning towards a national database. If the employers are presented with authentic (possibly stolen) papers, then they should not be held accountable. But then you’ll have employers falsifying documents, this happens alot in the construction industry.
I’m torn on this one. However KNOWINGLY hiring illegals, or a high percentage of illegals should be a no brainer, jail.
These business groups should be arrested.
Absolutely. Including propoents of amnesty for illegals. Following my logic, that puts McCain and President Bush in jail too.
No exceptions.
None!
I want to be clear up front I didn’t read more than the first page of the article although I usually do before posting.
I own a small business in Tucson, Arizona and agree that there is a problem hiring illegals here. And that we need to stop that practice.
What I don’t like is making business owners responsible for border enforcement. If they can’t get here I can’t hire them. As far as I know I’ve never hired an illegal and I never will on purpose. As another insane obstacle here in Arizona (according to my employment agency) I can’t even inquire as to immigration status until AFTER I hire them. Then if they’re a member of some protected minority my company may get sued.
But there are people (insert well-known but unsayable group name here) that are crossing our borders that don’t want jobs; they want jihad and checking a federal database won’t keep them out.
more like competing and going belly up!
I remember when I got out of college in 1985, and while looking for more lucrative employment, I was a restaurant manager. When The I-9 form came along in 1986, we were told that no illegal would be able to hide and no employer would be able to get away without penalty.
Yeah, right.
Indeed.
Lie about your employee’s immigration status.
Cheat, undercut your competitor’s costs with illegal immigration.
Steal the identity of an American.
Good. Have them all sign up to complain. Then investigate and start jailing the CEOs.
I’m from Wisconsin
Law here is 10 days to file new hire with the state including name, date of birth and social security
Also, you have to show picture id and s.s. card prior to being hired
Sounds simple enough to me
Those employers complaining just want to keep their costs down while the rest of us foot the bill.
"Hispanics" have no historical basis for protected status. They are not a race, they are a geographical group, an an ill-defined one at that. Brazilians, for example, are not Hispanic because they speak Portuguese. Spaniards, on the other hand, are even though they are on the opposite side of the Atlantic.
Any amnesty or guest worker program should bring with it a price that anyone admitted under such programs must agree to forgo "groupism" or legally defined "minority" status as a price of admission into a country which has never legally discriminated against them in anything remotely close to the legal discriminations against blacks and American Indians.
Supply and Demand.
If there really is a “shortage” of labor, employers will keep increasing wages, increasing benefits, and improving working conditions until the shortage abates.
Employers have not done that.
In 2007 America accepted 700,000 new citizens, 1.05 million legal residents (largely relatives of new citizens), and 500,000 temporary workers.
No serious person, no honest person, can look at numbers like that and claim there is a “labor shortage.”
This massive - and completely legal - influx of foreign labor has reduced the standard of living of tens of millions of home grown Americans.
We have that requirement for reporting new hires in AZ too. They use that info to track child support evaders and other miscreants.
You’re going to foot the bill no matter what anyway. Any cost imposed on businesses in general gets passed on to the consumer. I WANT illegal aliens stopped at the border. I have to compete with companies that hire illegals through shady employment practices.
Any business that fails to control costs is destined to go out of business.
The federal government has abdicated their responsibility to protect us from this invasion. I don’t think it’s fair to make my business (14 employees including me) an enforcer of immigration law. I’ll do what I can to screen when I interview but it should be stopped AT THE BORDER!!!!
In 1992 I had the choice of violating every wage,labor.an tax law and staying in business but chose to close a 57 year old firm.
I want to see every employer if illegals in prison and fined the maximum.
It’s personal!!!
These guys love the cheap labor, as long as the taxpayer foots the bill for everything else. Now they are in danger of getting caught and are squealing like stuck pigs. I have zero sympathy for these people.
“McCain and President Bush in jail too”
How about tomorrow morning!
Better yet a few years agp.
Short-term profit is more important than country. That seems to be what is getting us in trouble in many areas
yep
Sorry .44, but business should be ACCOUNTABLE for following the law. No one is asking you to make a citizens arrest, just fire someone whose documents don’t check out. Enforcement would be a lot easier if these people didn’t have willing business owner accomplices once they got here.
And BTW, its pretty darn obvious 99% of the time who the illegals are. Speaking little or no English is a big hint. Anyone with common sense and integrity can avoid hiring these people in the first place.
According to www.dhs.gov:
“E-Verify” authorizes 93% of applicants within 5 seconds.
“E-Verify” authorizes 94.2% of applicants in 24 hours.
“E-Verify” mistakenly rejects 0.5% (1 in 200) of applicants. In almost all cases they only need to correct small errors with their Social Security or Green Card paperwork. In almost all cases the law allows them to begin work as soon as they file the correction forms.
“E-Verify” correctly rejects 5.3% of applicants within 5 seconds. Almost 100% of these applicants do not return to the job site after rejection.
I agree and do follow the law. And I will continue to follow the law even though, as in this case, I don’t like it and think it unfair.
I do, however, want better enforcement on the border so business isn’t the first line of defense.
And the law is written screwy. I can’t prescreen potential hires. I have to hire them first THEN check. And after that I have to fire them if they don’t check out.
I don’t know how to be more clear. I don’t hire illegals. I have to compete against companies that do. And I want the invasion stopped and will help to stop it.
“These guys love the cheap labor, as long as the taxpayer foots the bill for everything else. Now they are in danger of getting caught and are squealing like stuck pigs. I have zero sympathy for these people.”
My thoughts exactly. I hope these scumbags rot.
I don't have a problem with making sure we only hire eligible employees. I do that. I don't like that the government doesn't do the job and puts the onus on business.
How about this? The next time you hire a contractor to do work at your home you make sure all their employees are eligible workers? Having said all this, at least it's a start. I just want to see the feds step up, enforce immigration laws and build the fence.
“I can’t prescreen potential hires.”
I agree with the post above. If it is true that you must hire before inquiring, I’d say any applicant who speaks little or no English, but has legal documentation, would be a RED flag.
3rd party hiring agencies don’t let employers off the hook either.
Props to you for attempting to be on the right side of this issue! Effectively securing the border would make a big difference. Unfortunately, it is employer groups like the Chambers of Commerce who are fighting border security.
Thanks. I don’t like competing against companies that hire illegals. And I sure as he11 don’t and won’t.
Keep up pressure on DC to stop the invasion.
These laws are like gun control laws. They don’t have any effect on companies that ignore the laws. And they make it harder for law abiding companies like mine.
AZ.44 says: “The next time you hire a contractor to do work at your home you make sure all their employees are eligible workers?”
Hey, no problem AZ!
That’s a terrific idea.
That’ll take like 30 seconds.
Or less - since your employees will be sprinting down the street.
The American Consumer - doing the job that American business owners refuse to do!
You like the slogan?
Have you read any of my previous posts?
It's quite possible that you are an honest and honorable businessman, and if I have insulted you, I sincerely apologize.
I simply do not understand the resistance to E-Verify from you and other business owners.
I come from three generations of small business owners, on both sides of my family.
None of my relatives oppose it.
Most of them use it.
The idea that E-Verify is a burden, or that E-Verify amplifies risk for lawsuits, is not a serious argument backed up by facts.
And - I was quite serious about consumers checking for legal status.
A completely brilliant, simple idea, and it never occurred to me.
Believe me, AZ, when Conservative consumers realize they can do E-Verify on your employees, THEY WILL!
Let me help you out here... If they don’t speak and read english fluently, they probably are illegal...
Now, that wasn’t so hard was it?
For the sake of short term profit these people will sell the country out in a second.
ping
I’m going to try this one more time. I don’t hire illegals. I don’t want them here. I will obey this law. It even seems to be having a positive effect. And that’s a good thing.
If any of you read my previous posts on this thread you’d already know what I just stated above.
Almost every post to me on this thread seems to think I want the cheap labor illegals bring. I don’t. I don’t like competing with companies that employ them.
Almost half of my employees, including me, are ex military. And ALL of them are here legally.
My problem is that the federal government hasn’t done their job and they’re using business as first responders. Where’s the border fence? I think government does too much where it doesn’t belong. It does belong on the border controlling the invasion of illegal aliens. And they’re doing a half-assed job there at best.
“My problem is that the federal government hasn’t done their job and they’re using business as first responders.”
I’m not referring to you, but to employers in general.
The fact is that businesses have caused this problem by hiring illegals. Aside from land mines and snipers, so long as businesses hire illegal workers there will always be people who will sneak across or over stay their visas.
The solution has to have, at it’s core, not hiring illegal workers. If that problem went away, the illegal immigration problem would go away for the most part.
We have laws against hiring illegals... Although we need a fence, the most useful thing the feds could do would be to jail employers who broke the law.
If you can know the immigration status of your employees, so can other businesses.
Many employers found themselves on the political defensive as they grappled, even in an economic downturn, with shortages of low-wage labor.
There is no shortage of American labor. Unemployment among the 18-25 year olds seeking entry-level jobs is at an all time high, affecting the African American community the most. A recent San Jose Mercury News article cited teens are find it nearly impossible to get summer jobs.
In California, businesses have turned to elected officials, including the Democratic mayor of Los Angeles, to lobby federal immigration authorities against raiding long-established companies.
And who better to lobby than Mayor Villaraigosa, a once proud member of MEChA, a racist organization that calls for the secession of the Southwest U.S.A..
Also in recent months, immigration bills were defeated in Indiana and Kentucky - states where control of the legislatures is split between Democrats and Republicans - owing in part to warnings from business groups that the measures could hurt the economy.
Unless the American middle and working classes are willing to work for Mexican slave wages and accept poverty and obedience as a way of life, it could hurt the economy? It works for me (/sarc)!
I appreciate your apology and I share your frustration.
I’ve lived in border states my entire life except for four years in the Marines. I grew up in Los Angeles in the 60s and 70s and moved to Arizona in the late 80s. I’ve seen most of the cities I’ve lived in become places where you almost have to be bilingual to function. Construction sites are a joke and you hear Spanish almost as much as English.
I want the illegal alien invasion stopped and have since I first noticed it in the 80s.
It’s insulting to me that the government’s response is a database and the borders are still wide open. They only have good fences near metropolitan areas. In rural areas it’s barbed wire you can defeat with a pair of wire cutters. I see trash and other signs of illegal aliens on my property occasionally. We’re about 85 miles from the Mexican border. I’ve also reported some illegals to the Border Patrol. They didn’t respond and instead told me to call DPS, the Arizona highway patrol.
It’s frustrating that there are still companies that don’t comply. The get away with it because they don’t care and there isn’t really any enforcement yet.
I think employers should know their employees’ immigration status. I know mine.
And finally, I’m encouraged by some things I’ve heard lately that the law is having a positive effect. I hired a contractor to do some work at our home and they had to delay starting the work because his help had left the state.
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