Posted on 06/02/2008 7:58:25 PM PDT by blam
GGG Ping.
unlike modern religions,
greek religions were populated by goddesses and gods.
But but but...this can’t be so, I thought women had been all repressed all through the ages...Hitlery told me so!
British researchers have unearthed evidence that proves Helen was much more than a chattel
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Duh.
They are sitting on half the money and all the..... other important stuff....
Since the sun rose the first time, until I'm dead for 1,000,000 years.
That's why we drink beer. And have gas.
/johnny
This is archaic, not classical. In classical Greece, there were very few grand tombs, except maybe for a few kings and tyrants. Bodies were cremated and buried in urns. If anyone knows better, tell me so.
In any case, it is a great leap from one example of grave goods to gender egalitarianism, not one that I would care to make.
Why does it prove anything or make a difference that they were brother and sister?
Also, anyone who has read any Greek mythology or Homer at all would know that women could enjoy high status from birth. But status doesn’t equal power.
Your posts are right on the money. Pagan societies did not treat women very nicely...or men for that matter. It took the arrival of Christianity to liberate the bondages of misery for both sexes.
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Thanks Blam. Nonsequitur though, IMHO. |
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Or maybe they were married to each other.
I think this english archeologist is projecting PC more than science.
Of course he could have just talked to the local anthropologists and archeologiests who could have corrected some the the mistranslations of history.
there is no need for translations as much as looking at popular culture in the form of the classic plays show women were held in levels of importance.
I think it is just projection to think that in an era of a 30 year life span there was the luxury of 100 year life span sensibilities.
Actually, the grave circles at Mycenae aren’t from either the Archaic or the Classical period. They are dated to the Late Bronze Age (Late Helladic I), and so would technically be considered prehistoric.
Strangely, both of my sisters are Greek and by coincidence so am I! And they’re both bossy as all get out and act like royalty instead of the Lesbians we are. (The family is from Lesvos)
True. Archaic is after the Dark Ages.
“Pagen societies did not treat women very nicely...”
Actually, before societies realized the contribution of the male to reproduction, women often had more power, as seen sometimes with matrilineal societies. It is theorized that as animal husbandry became common, males realized both their physical power in handling large animals, and the male contribution to parentage.
The period of 17 to 12th centuries BC. was an interesting transitional period. Murals from Thera (1600’s BC) show important goddesses. Shortly thereafter, Queen Hatshepsut of Egypt was a major power, although her successor tried mightyly to erase her name. The murals from Crete of the same period show female bull leapers who must have had some importance. In the following centuries there were rich buriels of women in the Russian steppes. They even had tall headdresses, which to my mind seemed a little like the crown of upper and lower Egypt. The Roman’s were impressed with the Germanic women warriors.
It took a lot of hard work on the part of men to subjugate women, but they finally succeeded after a fashion.
I think that human reproduction was understood by then. There were important goddesses, but then there still are. Hatshepsut wasn’t a queen, but a female king who ruled as a man. Bull leapers were of both sexes, but were expendable rather than high status entertainers (not a job you would want). Tall hair, in various forms, can be found throughout the ages.
Pagan societies did not treat women very nicely...or men for that matter.
I’ll stand by my original comment above.
The fact that the ancient Crete worshiped goddesses doesn’t make them unusual; so did classical Athenians, whose city housed one of the most magnificent images of the goddess Athena ever created. But their women had about the same legal rights as their goats.
In classical Greece, girls got no education. When a man brought guests home for dinner, his wife was not allowed to eat with them. Adult women were considered little better than chattel thus the hetairae. Correspondingly, sodomy was rampant. In Aristophanes says women are “the vilest of creatures.” Female infanticide was routine.
The Romans: Emperor Tiberius surrounded himself with nude women to wait on him while he gorged. Female prostitutes entertained him with group sex. Caligula committed incest with all his sisters while Domitian was another who specialized in incest. In Roman law, adultery was a crime that only a woman could commit. Marital faithfulness in the Roman Empire was almost unknown.
Durant is one easily accessible source for all this. In pagan Rome, a husband could divorce his wife, kill her or sell her. He could even kill his married daughter.
Much of this didn’t change, in practice, because Christianity was introduced, although Christianity did empower certain women.
For instance, how many faithful husbands were there in medieval Europe? Maybe they could have fit into a phone booth ... or a confessional. Medieval Europe could be characterized as extremely misogynistic, and extremely Christian.
While the Roman elites were obviously decadent and immoral, it is not quite fair to use Caligula as an example of them, since he was regarded in his immediate posterity as the definition of “criminally insane.”
Maybe you would think that the Christian Byzantines ought to be much more moral than their wicked pagan Roman antecedents... if so, start with Procopius’ The Secret History.
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