Posted on 05/29/2008 9:43:07 AM PDT by MizSterious
As I said previously, she mentioned religion, and that presumes beliefs. However, her screed clearly only protects speech, not actions. That's why I concluded that she would have the 1sr Amendment protect speech, not religion.
And, as I also said previously, I agree that when inalienable right collide, one of them has to yield.
Last, it sounds like you've lost sight of the debate point over laws ands treaties. The 1st Amendment says Congress can't pass certain laws. Defending against my assertion that polygamy laws were passed after polygamy religions were already established in the US, you claimed that the 14th Amendment allowed that, I assume because of equal protection. I then responded that Amendments are not laws passed by Congress. IOW, Amendments do not suffer the same restrictions on Congress as laws. Same for Treaties. That was the context.
BTW, the first federal polygamy law was passed before the 14th Amendment was ratified.
Three-judge panel on 3rd Court of Appeals and six Texas Supreme Court judges...yes, what you believe is correct.
I'm well aware that our governments should be, must be, reined in when they violate our freedoms. They've already crossed that line and, so far, the sheeple too often remain unconcerned.
Along with that, a civil society also requires laws to maintain order. Yet even laws are subject to debate...a good law? a bad law?
My understanding of the FLDS is that abuse of human beings born into this cult begins in early childhood. The abuse does not begin when a young girl is told that she will marry 45-year-old Obadiah or 53-year-old Ezra, or even 20-year-old Luke the day after tomorrow.
The imminent abuse, from all I've heard and read, begins at birth, and also includes the male children.
Your demeanor gives the impression that you are a family law attorney. Are you? Whether or not, your arrogant egotism comes through in many of your posts.
Guess you're the only one here knows everything!
Just for the record, I've never accused anyone who disagreed with the removal of the children of supporting or condoning sexual abuse. I'm mindful of their reasons for holding that opinion.
Some people simply cannot get it through their thick skulls that we either ALL have Constitutional Rights or NONE of us do.
Try to get it through your thick skull that the children born into this polygamous sect ALL have Constitutional Rights! Civil Rights!
Take a few minutes from posting and read the following link. http://writ.news.findlaw.com/hamilton/20080501.html
Alice in Wonderland,
You may wish to read my original post. It is #28, and in it, I responded to Marci Hamilton’s article. I made five points, and stated that I don’t believe that Hamilton made a convincing argument.
What is exactly is your point?
Would you like to focus on the bigger picture - such as, do you believe that Hamilton’s article was convincing? Or - how do you feel about the 3rd Appellate’s and TX Supreme Court’s decisions?
They are definitely crying religious persecution. What kind of religion endorses water torture for infants? To be fair to all FLDS, perhaps it's not the entire religion, maybe it's the select, twisted individuals who use their religious beliefs to inflict torture on others. Carolyn Jessop, describes in her book, "Escape", how her husband, Merryl Jessop (her husband of 17 years) used water torture on their babies. Carolyn was the 4th wife of Merryl Jessop, married him at 18 (he was 50). She bore him 8 children. She, along with the other wives were abused in all forms. However, the worst form of control came in abusing the children. Apparently, Jessop would spank the infant until it screamed in pain, then he would hold the infant under tap water for a minute or so until the baby couldn't breathe, then spank again, would repeat this process until the infant was ready to pass out, could c of religion endorses water torture for infants? To be fair to all FLDS, perhaps it's not the entire religion, maybe it's the select, twisted individuals who use their religious beliefs to inflict torture on others. Carolyn Jessop, describes in her book, "Escape", how her husband, Merryl Jessop (her husband of 17 years) used water torture on their babies. Carolyn was the 4th wife of Merryl Jessop, married him at 18 (he was 50). She bore him 8 children. She, along with the other wives were abused in all forms. However, the worst form of control came in abusing the children. Apparently, Jessop would spank the infant until it screamed in pain, then he would hold the infant under tap water for a minute or so until the baby couldn't breathe, then spank again, would repeat this process until the infant was ready to pass out, could cry no more. This was a way of "breaking them down", so that they would have fear of their father/authority from an early age. He also did it starting in infancy because they would unlikely be able to remember what happened to them; they would only remember the effect and conditioning. Carolyn said that this was worse for her to endure than her own punishment/torture that would be inflicted on her. This sort of thing, along with pitting each wife against each other, is what kept the whole sham going for so long (and it still goes on). Carolyn Jessop goes on to say that she happened in Colorado City, AZ, before Warren Jeffs started the YFZ Ranch in Texas. She does not think that she could have escaped if she was on the compound in El Dorado, Texas. Now we have these are the same nutcases who allowed their babies to go through water torture, child rape, and God only know what else, repeating, "We want our children back, they took away our children." If these children go back to the same situation, this cycle of brainwashing and abuse will never end. When one reporter asked why the children couldn't identify their own mother, the answer was because the children were raised in the community with many mothers. The women were assigned to different groups of children throughout the week/months, so essentially it's not like these women were raising their own biological children exclusively. This must be the reason why they keep repeating, "our children", instead of "my children." I found it amazing how every, single, human right has been stripped away from them, even the right to claim their children as their own and the right to take care of their own biological babies. Their rights were indeed stripped from them; however, this happened a long time ago, and it was not by the state of Texas. Their rights as a mother were stripped away the minute that their child became a part of the entire community and belonged to the entire community; the mother had her rights as a parent taken away. These children can be assigned and re-assigned to different mothers and fathers at anytime, as the "prophet" directs. And of course, none of it is wrong because the prophet gets his orders directly from God. Can we even comprehend the level of mind control and brain-washing that it would take to have us believe and buy into this sort of thinking? That we would give our children away to a community, would let our barely pubescent daughters "spiritually" marry and have sexual relations with old men, would endure any and all forms of abuse, all in the name of a religion? They say that they are being persecuted because of their religion. I agree with them. They are being persecuted by their own religion, and they're doing it to themselves. Can you imagine one day coming out of this, waking up from this zombie-like stupor, and realizing that your whole life of torture, pain, and abuse was all due to the fact that you willingly let someone do it to you? I think when that happens, some of these people will have a complete nervous breakdown. I realize that these people, these women, most likely, were brought up like this from infancy, came through generations of this type of systematic abuse, so it is understandable why something like this could happen. Someone commented that when flying over the grounds in El Dorado, Texas, there were no swing sets, no sandboxes, nothing that would indicate that children lived there. So they have no visible vestiges that children live there, but they do have guards stationed at various towers. What is this, a housing complex/compound or a maximum security prison? Something is very wrong here. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2008/04/forgotten-children-of-flds-polygamist.html
Take the time to read what's ACTUALLY going on in this cult before you criticize those who believe kids should be removed from this sick environment.
Spare us your constant harping on the "Constitution". That awesome document protects the rights of ALL Americans, including the children.
Then why did two Texas Courts including the Supreme Court of Texas rule that CPS is acting outside of the Law in this case? CPS was free to assert that FLDS was violating Constitutional Rights of these children. Why didn't they?
Take a few minutes from posting and read the following link.
Irrelevant. If that Statue had applied, the SC of Texas might have found differently.
So far the only people shown to be breaking laws here is Texas CPS.
L
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