Posted on 05/26/2008 5:12:45 AM PDT by forkinsocket
Fear of possible military conflict with Syria prompted renewal of negotiations, prime minister reveals at Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee session. 'We must choose between Greater Israel or a Jewish state,' he says. MK Livnat: Olmert's words 'delusional for someone at the end of his political rope'
"Only fantasists can believe that in this day and age, and in the current situation, it is still possible to cling to the vision of 'Greater Israel,' Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Monday.
The prime minister participated in the committee's session to brief them on the resumption of negotiations with Syria and to address criticism of his apparent willingness to cede the Golan Heights as part of a final peace agreement.
"Today we face the choice between Greater Israel and a Jewish nation – the two are mutually exclusive. They only exist together in the minds of deluded fantasists who misconstrue reality," he said.
The prime minister explained the decision to keep the talks under wraps despite the fact that the matter had been hotly debated by the committee on past occasions was the sensitive nature of the negotiations.
"Anyone in my chair understands that these moves need to be made with the utmost caution, and secrecy is a necessary part of that. Not even the entire cabinet could be privy to the information. I initiated this move in February 2007, with a record of four predecessors who went to Damascus and committed to painful concessions, and let no one put me to the test on proving those commitments – they are all accounted for."
As for international responses to the talks, particularly that of the United States, Olmert stressed that "there is not a single party in the world that told Israel not to negotiate for peace. Irregardless of this, I certainly shared our thoughts and the developments with our closest friends – as is natural.
"What tipped the scales what the burning question of what might happen if, heaven forbid, we would be drawn, due to a miscalculation, into a violent confrontation with Syria. Then I would be asked - how can it be that they were seeking peace and you did not even examine the possibility?"
Greater Israel or Jewish state – not both Olmert also touched on the Palestinian issue, saying that negotiations with the Palestinian Authority were serious and going forward in good faith, but that time was a vital factor in the peace efforts.
Olmert rejected the possibility of 'an economic peace' prior to a final deal, saying that so long as Israel and the PA did not have an agreement backed by the international community regarding the outline of such a comprehensive agreement – nothing would change.
"We are talking about a leadership that wants and talks peace, and that does not instigate terrorism," he said, "the difference between my predecessors and I is the question of realization. We will carry out nothing the day after the deal is signed so long as the Palestinians have yet to fulfill their obligations."
"I was one of those who thought the two-state solution was wrong, but that was a mistake," he said. "Most today understand that the choice is between two states for two peoples or one state in which all have an equal right to vote."
Livnat: Olmert the delusional one
MK Limor Livnat (Likud) slammed Olmert's statements and called them "delusional for someone at the end of his political rope."
Livnat also said Olmert told the committee members that Israel was not negotiating with Hamas – as opposed to comments made by Deputy Premier Haim Ramon, who recently implied Israel was negotiating with the Islamist group despite past decisions against this.
MK Effie Eitam (National Union – NRP) accused Olmert of "trying to deceive the committee through guile and cunning, using stories and slogans.
"It is clear to me now that this is how he behaves in front of police investigators as well," said Eitam. "But his slickness will be of no help to him, we all remember how he brought Hamas to Gaza and Hizbullah to Lebanon and now he is plotting to bring Iran to the Golan Heights. He must be stopped, in the political arena and perhaps the criminal one."
Delusional is the idea of Olmert and ilk of a peace through concessions towards their enemies. If Greater Israel is delusional, the Bible is. Olmert denies both Scripture and Zionism. This guy is a dead-ender.
When your neighbors accept the latter, give us a call.
I've lost sympathy for Israel. They're making their own beds.
Olmert is a putz.
God must be weeping.
The begining of the end of the Olmert era in Isreal.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Idunno. Did God weep over Judas?
It begun with the bungled war against Hebullah. Olmert is in his throes. The deciding question is whether his mushy Kadima will keep the power or if we are to witness a return of the Likud.
I think we are going to see a return of Likud via one Bibi Netenunyu.
Delusional is the idea of Olmert and ilk of a peace through concessions towards their enemies. If Greater Israel is delusional, the Bible is. Olmert denies both Scripture and Zionism. This guy is a dead-ender.You goobers don't give a hoot about Israel. This is the biggest security coup Israel has ever gotten. Peace with Syria cuts off Iran, the most porous border of Iraq and forces Hizbollah to wither on the vine.
Sorry your messianic delusions prevent you from seeing that.
I don't see how shrinking Israel makes the country more secure. The demographic argument has been debunked and it doesn't apply to the Golan Heights. I submit its Ehud Olmert plying his Walter Mitty fantasy whose results have proven far more harmful to Israel's well-being than any Greater Israel theorists have ever done to the nation.The power structure of the middle east is changing, quickly. Allegiance is settling around ethnic boundaries and Syria was the odd man out. Deathly afraid of the encroaching Shi'ites but afraid of being undermined by the west. Now by entering the western sphere on their own terms the Syrians get what they wanted(and Israel gets a *ton* more security, both from having Syria off the table and from Syria expelling Meshaal and gang from Damascus).
Insults are for those lacking arguments. I give a lot of "hoot" about Israel. Apparently more than you.
This is the biggest security coup Israel has ever gotten.
Delusional, foolish and it total denial of reality. Hezbullah with Syrian backing has achieved a landmark political victory in Lebanon. Syria refused to cancel support of Hezbullah and other terrorist groups. Israel gains ZERO.
Peace with Syria cuts off Iran, the most porous border of Iraq
There is no "peace with Syria". Syria itself is militarily irrelevant. Their support of terrorists across the region is the issue. Israel gains nothing from forfeiting the Golan Heights. Syria get's rewarded for being a terrorist bully. Syria just a few days ago refused to cancel ties with Iran and Hezbullah.
and forces Hizbollah to wither on the vine.
Thanks to Olmert's incompetence and staunch Syrian-Iranian backing Hezbullah is more powerful than ever. They have gained veto right in Lebanon. Yeah... wither on the vine...
Sorry your messianic delusions prevent you from seeing that.
The case I just made was entirely secular and based on military/strategical considerations. My religion doesn't cloud anything. It just makes the matter an issue of an higher priority.
False. Syria has issues with the Sunnis. Syria's ruling class are Alawites, a Shi'ite variety, ruling over Sunnis. Hafez Assad had the hands full with fighting Sunni Islamists. Syria also supported Shi'ite Iran in the Iran-Iraq war against their Baathist brethren in Iraq. Syria is also the second sponsor of Shi'ite Hezbullah after Iran. Syria has become nothing but the secular-fascist political proxy of the Shi'ite Islamists in Iran.
Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.
Insults are for those lacking arguments. I give a lot of "hoot" about Israel. Apparently more than you.Uuuum... you realize that the peace deal is in the *future* right? You're getting your tenses confused. As for Syria refusing to forfeit their support for Hizbollah, just wait a little while, it's one of Syria's few bargaining chips, they'll hold on to it for a while, get a few concessions and the cut them loose. Just watch. Your fundamentalism is stunting your knowledge of realpolitik.Delusional, foolish and it total denial of reality. Hezbullah with Syrian backing has achieved a landmark political victory in Lebanon. Syria refused to cancel support of Hezbullah and other terrorist groups. Israel gains ZERO.
There is no "peace with Syria". Syria itself is militarily irrelevant. Their support of terrorists across the region is the issue. Israel gains nothing from forfeiting the Golan Heights. Syria get's rewarded for being a terrorist bully. Syria just a few days ago refused to cancel ties with Iran and Hezbullah.
Thanks to Olmert's incompetence and staunch Syrian-Iranian backing Hezbullah is more powerful than ever. They have gained veto right in Lebanon. Yeah... wither on the vine...
The case I just made was entirely secular and based on military/strategical considerations. My religion doesn't cloud anything. It just makes the matter an issue of an higher priority.
Peace with Syria is a delusion. They want the high ground so that they can attack Israel from the North.
False. Syria has issues with the Sunnis. Syria's ruling class are Alawites, a Shi'ite variety, ruling over Sunnis. Hafez Assad had the hands full with fighting Sunni Islamists. Syria also supported Shi'ite Iran in the Iran-Iraq war against their Baathist brethren in Iraq. Syria is also the second sponsor of Shi'ite Hezbullah after Iran. Syria has become nothing but the secular-fascist political proxy of the Shi'ite Islamists in Iran.Nope. Syria and Iran were always engaged in a marriage of convenience. Syria has been trying to get out from under Iran's shadow for a while now. If you actually learned something about the region's politics(Israeli analysts are usually the best) you might understand a bit more about the region.
Peace with Syria is a delusion. They want the high ground so that they can attack Israel from the North.lol... you may be the only person who holds the Syria military in high regard.
You are talking about a hypothetical fantastic "peace deal". There will be no "peace deal" in the future. Not on Assad's or ilk terms. The tense I use is correct, because it relates to actual events. The right way to deal with Syria was shown in last autumn when the Syrian nuke facility was bombed to rubble. The Syrians were meek. Israel should seize on that and ultimately have real peace on their terms.
As for Syria refusing to forfeit their support for Hizbollah, just wait a little while, it's one of Syria's few bargaining chips, they'll hold on to it for a while, get a few concessions and the cut them loose. Just watch.
Don't hold your breath. Only if something decisive happens in regard to Hezbullah or Iran, Syria will be seperated fromt them. At the very least Syria has to realize that their current alliances are not worth an confrontation with Israel/USA. This won't happen if they get catered to by Olmert and Pelosi.
Your fundamentalism is stunting your knowledge of realpolitik.
Realpolitik, if meaning diplomacy without force and will to get rough, is dangerously close to naivete.
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