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The international kilogram conundrum[Weights have mysteriously fluctuated]
LA Times ^ | 17 Apr 2008 | Jia-Rui Chong

Posted on 04/20/2008 5:58:33 PM PDT by BGHater

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To: ConservativeMind

SI is for those that find multiplying or dividing by anything other than 10 too difficult.


61 posted on 04/20/2008 6:59:42 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: John Jorsett
"The problem with that theory is that they collect the samples together in one place to compare them, and that's how they know they've changed. My guess is that some of the caretakers have been using them as paperweights."

well that settles it then, it's definitely a yet to be studied and explained sub-atomic decay. The reason each sample is slightly different is because they were never atomically identical as they thought.

Problem solved. /s

62 posted on 04/20/2008 7:01:37 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: ConservativeMind
Oh, yeah, knowing a different unit for length or weight has most definitely put us at an absolute disadvantage in sciences here in the US.

NOT! Big hairy deal. It doesn’t make one illiterate or less capable using a different unit.

Scientists -- even American scientists -- uniformly use SI. Are you seriously claiming that not having the sort of intuitive, reflexive grasp of a system of weights and measures that can only come from being immersed in it constantly is no disadvantage?

By the way, to everybody else in the thread who's blathering about changing gravitational constants and different local gravitational strength: MASS IS INDEPENDENT OF GRAVITY, YOU SIMPLETONS. My God, do you think that every single scientist in the world is a moron? Do you think that none of them is aware that gravity is locally variable?

63 posted on 04/20/2008 7:02:05 PM PDT by Politicalities
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To: BGHater

Where is the US sample housed? Looks like being in a mountainous country produces greater gain in mass. Maybe a radiation effect? Cosmic rays? Panspermia?


64 posted on 04/20/2008 7:04:13 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: Politicalities

“Now hold your hands about a meter apart. How much do you want to bet that your latter estimate is more inaccurate than your former?”

The foot is far more accurate and so is the inch. And what a stupid means of trying to justify the meter, an arbitrary unit of length. “Hold out your hands”??

You may be more accusomed to SI and therefore believe it is more user friendly so why is it that children have such a hard time with it the world over? The meter fits nothing, not even the speed of light or a unit of Earthly measure, and don’t even get me started on the gram.


65 posted on 04/20/2008 7:04:13 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Politicalities

P.S. From a scientific standpoint, SI makes no practical sense and has nothing but POLITICAL merit.


66 posted on 04/20/2008 7:05:29 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: tokenatheist
"the evolutionary response would be that the mass isn’t living so evolution doesn’t have a thing to do with the changes."

Except that it isn't the evolutionary response. "Primadorol soup" apparently "evolved' from elements exposed to millions of years of exposure to cosmic gases, cooling millions of years of space rain which then made this soup of which pairs of living things crawled out of and evolved into everything.

67 posted on 04/20/2008 7:07:23 PM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: Politicalities
"My God, do you think that every single scientist in the world is a moron?"

You seem to think they are. You state that they need SI as though they cannot figure out any other units of measure.

(hint: They do every day and it works well for them.)

68 posted on 04/20/2008 7:07:23 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: coloradan
Note that Le Grand K doesn’t fluctuate. Only the other copies do.

Le Grand K is the reference value against which all others are measured. It doesn't vary because it is defined to be THE kilogram. In reality it probably varies just as much as the other ones.

69 posted on 04/20/2008 7:07:47 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Rattenschadenfreude: joy at a Democrat's pain, especially Hillary's pain caused by Obama.)
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To: Chaguito

‘GAITHERSBURG, MD. — Forty feet underground, secured in a temperature- and humidity-controlled vault here, lies Kilogram No. 20.’


70 posted on 04/20/2008 7:08:13 PM PDT by BGHater ("If any question why we died/ Tell them, because our fathers lied")
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To: BGHater; All
Given that weight is the product of mass and gravity (F = ma), and knowing that gravity doesn't necessarily behave as evidenced by the Oregon Vortex (<-click), and given all the seismic activity that has been taking place on the earth since these reference masses were made, my question is why didn't scientists foresee that the gravity dependent weights of these reference masses wouldn't necessarily behave?

What am I overlooking?

When in doubt, blame it on global warming.

71 posted on 04/20/2008 7:12:10 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: CodeToad
Actually, yes and no. Because the SI system was forced upon the standards community the definition of a pound is a measurement against the kilo, yet, the pound still exists as it has for centuries against the grain, exactly 7,000 grains per pound, a more meaningful definition than the kilo.

Dear Lord you are thick. And how, pray tell, is the grain defined? Well, currently it's defined as 64.8 (more or less) grams. Historically, though, it was defined as the weight of a wheat seed... hence "grain." You think that's more accurate than defining a weight based on a platinum-iridium cylinder kept in climate-controlled storage?

...useless definition as no one here can possibly use an instrument that accurate.

And yet it's a big deal when a kilogram standard fluctuates by 0.0000000019%.

The kilo is a useless measurement and was nothing more than an abitrary measurement.

"Arbitrary?" It was initially defined as the mass of one liter (1000 cubic centimeters) of pure water at a fixed temperature, which is a hell of a lot less arbitrary than the weight of a frickin' seed.

72 posted on 04/20/2008 7:14:25 PM PDT by Politicalities
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To: Politicalities
"Scientists -- even American scientists -- uniformly use SI."

P.S.S. I am a scientist and work within an advanced research and development group for one of the leaders in a particiular industry and we don't use SI. No need to use a French system of conversion from other more useful values. (Another Hint: Newton didn't say F=ma)

73 posted on 04/20/2008 7:15:17 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Nathan Zachary

I know that you have been told this before but I will say it again.

Evolution, no matter how many times you say it does, does not cover the origin of life. Repeating that it does even thought you have been corrected numerous time borders on the deliberate spreading of untruths.


74 posted on 04/20/2008 7:15:43 PM PDT by tokenatheist (Can I play with madness?)
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To: Politicalities

No, you are thick. All kinds of people have come up with all kinds of units of measure for good reason and along come the French to change it to some arbitrary units of measure. Just look at your silly conversion factors, 0.453592338 kg of that 64.8 of the other. They changed the meter from one measurement to another once the other didn’t work out. The kilogram is a volumetric mass versus a weight against standard gravity, etc, etc, etc.

SI is what you get when politics and committees get involved.


75 posted on 04/20/2008 7:19:25 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: roaddog727

Sure, it makes sense to folks who recognize that there’s a fundamental flaw in the metric system ~ namely, it is impossible to establish a uniform standard for anything everywhere simultaneously.


76 posted on 04/20/2008 7:20:09 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Politicalities

“”Arbitrary?” It was initially defined as the mass of one liter (1000 cubic centimeters) of pure water at a fixed temperature, which is a hell of a lot less arbitrary than the weight of a frickin’ seed.”

Initially an arbitrary measurement, what is it today?? What does a mass of one liter equal? Anything in the real world?? Anything? Again, arbitrary. Was then and still is. So is the meter. As I have said before, they changed it from a measurement against the Earth to the speed of light. Yeah, that’s stable and neither measurement is any whole number of value.


77 posted on 04/20/2008 7:22:07 PM PDT by CodeToad
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To: Politicalities
Nonsense. If you need an "intuitive grasp" of anything that is readily supplanted through the use of a handy pocket calculator ~ and down to an incredible number of positions past the decimal point.

What you need an "intuitive grasp" of is space in 17 dimensions silly, primitive Hu-Mon.

78 posted on 04/20/2008 7:23:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Politicalities

Yes, I’m saying it is not a disadvantage.

By the way, I also believe that people who grow up knowing French are not at a disadvantage, linguistically, as compared with those who know English.

There is no disadvantage for mastery of either COMPLETELY DIFFERENT language, so how, on Earth, can having different units be such a limiting problem?


79 posted on 04/20/2008 7:25:14 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Flaws in the cosmic chips that undergird our perception of the universe ~ something like that.


80 posted on 04/20/2008 7:25:52 PM PDT by muawiyah
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