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1 posted on 04/15/2008 7:28:02 PM PDT by blam
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To: SunkenCiv

GGG Ping.


2 posted on 04/15/2008 7:28:25 PM PDT by blam (Secure the border and enforce the law)
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To: blam

Four years, huh. That’s just enough time for whichever of the loser presidential candidates to screw the world up. Yep, sounds about right.


3 posted on 04/15/2008 7:30:15 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (The fence is "absolutely not the answer" - Gov. Rick Perry (R, TX))
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To: blam

Good!


4 posted on 04/15/2008 7:31:52 PM PDT by KoRn (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: blam

Y2K12

All stone calendars will cease to function!

The human sacrifice schedule will be thrown into chaos!

Stock up NOW on freeze dried human hearts.


5 posted on 04/15/2008 7:32:19 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: blam

Aargh. More end of time nonsense! Where’s the ‘not this sh*t again’ pic?


6 posted on 04/15/2008 7:34:33 PM PDT by urabus
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To: blam

the second problem is that it is always remarkably difficult to make predictions, especially about the future, and things that haven’t happened yet.

Actually that’s the easy part, being accurate, now that’s another thing.


7 posted on 04/15/2008 7:34:46 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: blam

It’s off by 4 years. Should be Nov 4th 2008.


9 posted on 04/15/2008 7:42:10 PM PDT by 12th_Monkey
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To: blam

I have been to Chichen Itza nice place and interesting culture ... My take on this is they didn’t like RINOS or Liberals and 2012 will be to late to correct the foolish road we have been traveling.


10 posted on 04/15/2008 7:42:27 PM PDT by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: blam

One of the televangelist ministries has latched onto 2012 and has published a book. They’re saying December 21, 2012. Not sure whether the book supports this, or is critical. I’d think critical, since date setting is severely frowned upon. I think it’s Jack Van Impe Ministries.


12 posted on 04/15/2008 7:45:06 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: blam
the coming anarchy

this is a good book. it pulls together economic, social, political, regional, geographic, and environmental happenings in the post cold war era into a stark, and bleak vision of the future.

below is a review posted on amazon.com

(this really doesn't have anything to do with the mayans, but is still an interesting read).

This book collects 9 essays by Kaplan, known for political realism and bold travel writing. The first and last essays are the worst; the middle seven are not so bad.

In the first essay Kaplan argues that the present peace will not last long, that its "degeneration" in places like sub-Saharan Africa will lead to anarchy, with disturbing results even in the first world. His main evidence is environmental change and resource depletion (especially soil and water--his argument would be stronger if he included oil). I don't know what golden age Kaplan is looking back to in sub-Saharan Africa (in Eastern Europe I guess it must be the Ottomans); so anarchy there will be no surprise. But with grand assumptions and meager evidence--surely he has more than he cites, but he has to deal with apparently contrary evidence to be truly convincing--he declares breathtaking conclusions, such as the dissolution of the USA into ethnic warfare. Perhaps he's right, but his analysis is so thin that he's not persuasive.

Yet there are moments of light, as when he describes the historical perspective of the occupants of Ankara's slums, quoting Naipaul. Or when he analyzes the "lies of the mapmaker," more precisely the lies of the post-WWII statesmen who carelessly created the states defined by the lines on the map.

So many people naively believe that the 3rd world will inevitably become like the 1st; but Kaplan believes it will go the other way just as inevitably. His first essay is a polemic for his belief. I'm sorry; it has little useful analysis or insight.

Reading the second essay, "Was Democracy Just a Moment?" is like stepping from darkness into light (of course there are still shadows). If you believe that democracy is always the best government, this essay will be challenging for you.

The third essay, "Idealism Won't Stop Mass Murder," will be interesting for anyone interested in the causes and preventions of genocide and similar massive tragedies.

Let me skip around a bit, for it is no small irony that an author concerned with mass murder would write in defense of Henry Kissinger, yet that is the purpose of the seventh essay. Kaplan defends a man who is perhaps American history's worst criminal against critics by systematically understating everything Kissinger did in Vietnam, Cambodia, (Kaplan doesn't mention Laos), Cyprus, Chile, (and he doesn't mention East Timor). See Christopher Hitchens' "The Trial of Henry Kissinger," to which Kaplan's essay is a weak response.

The fourth essay explains the need for special forces and institutions such as the CIA. He believes--and I agree--that these are the future of warfare.

The fifth essay is a review of Gibbon's "Decline and Fall." If you don't know why that's famous, Kaplan's essay might even inspire you to try reading it. That happened to me.

The eighth essay is another book review, this time of Conrad's "Nostromo." Kaplan compares the book to "Heart of Darkness" and considers its application to the contemporary third world. (A few years ago an edition of "Nostromo" and "Lord Jim" was published with introductions by Kaplan.) Another book was added to my reading list.

The sixth essay advocates "proportional" responses to foreign policy. Few would argue with the vague philosophy Kaplan presents, except those who eagerly throw American troops into murky conflicts with unclear goals (Kissinger?). Of course, practical applications and interpretations are the real problem. Anyway, this essay is solid and concise.

With the ninth essay Kaplan descends again. Nostalgic for the Cold War and MAD--"the Cold War may have been as close to utopia as we are ever likely to get" p. 171--he wants to be sure that the US rather than the UN is the power of the future. He is sure that the UN wouldn't have enough war, so it would be unprincipled. I'm not making this up! "The US should... take over the UN in order to make it a transparent multiplier of American and Western power. That, of course, may not lead to peace, since others might resent it and fight as a result; but such action would fill the [UN]'s insipid ideological vacuum with at least someone's values--indeed ours. Peace should never be an expediency."

Whoa.

Of course he's right that peace won't last forever; he's right that we (whoever we are) should be prepared to protect ourselves from evil; he's right not to trust the UN unconditionally (don't trust anything unconditionally). But he's wrong to believe that America is not capable of evil. In this respect he's as naive as any idealist: "Of course, [America's] post-Cold War mission to spread democracy is partly a pose." (71).

Partly? PARTLY?

This was my first book by Kaplan. I'm going to read another. Perhaps he has written some more well-reasoned arguments elsewhere.

Kaplan is relevant because he understands human ambition; he is wrong because he doesn't believe it can be channeled productively and peacefully. No one should ignore such a voice, but no one should read uncritically.

14 posted on 04/15/2008 7:47:06 PM PDT by robomatik ((wine plug: renascentvineyards.com cabernet sauvignon, riesling, and merlot))
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To: blam
"It was set up around 355 BCE..."

There's no such date. "BCE" isn't a legally recognized dating format.

There's "BC" and there's "AD," but "BCE" and "CE" are figments of imaginative college profs and other politically correct nincompoops.

15 posted on 04/15/2008 7:47:53 PM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: blam
I thought I also heard that 2012 is when Social Security is supposed to go belly up for all of us Baby Boomers. Maybe the Mayan knew something about government financing when they came up with that date.
19 posted on 04/15/2008 7:53:19 PM PDT by Towed_Jumper (Stephen Hopkins: Founding Father who had Cerebral Palsy.."My hand trembles, my heart does not.")
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To: blam
I've been hearing about the 2012 TEOTWAWKI date since I was a kid in the 70s... but what I find more interesting is the question of why the Mayans chose the year 3114 BC as the first year of their Long Count calendar.
21 posted on 04/15/2008 7:53:37 PM PDT by Bear_in_RoseBear (NerdGod)
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To: blam

Thank God I’m not a Mayan!


22 posted on 04/15/2008 7:53:49 PM PDT by Palladin (Pennsylvania: guns, religion, and liberty.)
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To: blam

As my mom used to say, people have been predicting the end of the World forever.


30 posted on 04/15/2008 8:09:36 PM PDT by popdonnelly (Unapologetically European)
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To: blam
Skynet goes on line on April 19, 2012. it becomes self aware on Judgment Day, April 21, 2012 in this time line. The I Ching ends on the exact same date as the Myan Calendar, in any case we a screwed.
33 posted on 04/15/2008 8:14:27 PM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (John McCain - The Manchurian Candidate? http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm)
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To: blam

I think that I read it will be in August 2012 when the 28,000 year Mayan calender is completed.

We shall see what happens.


35 posted on 04/15/2008 8:22:40 PM PDT by Radix (How come they call people "Morons" when they do not know as much? Shouldn't they be called "Lessons?)
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To: blam
I always thought there might be something to this because weren't these the same people who correctly identified, to the day, the landing of the first European conqueror on their shores, who they thought was their god?
37 posted on 04/15/2008 8:29:06 PM PDT by FrdmLvr
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To: blam

Too many anti-Catholic threads.


38 posted on 04/15/2008 8:39:09 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture™)
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December 20, 2012
42 posted on 04/15/2008 10:05:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_____________________Profile updated Saturday, March 29, 2008)
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