Posted on 04/11/2008 9:51:22 PM PDT by La Enchiladita
I see. Perhaps this emerging biofuel business is seen as a threat to the oil market? Interesting that the MSM is taking an anti-biofuel stance; they must have substantial oil company investment. So, this brouhaha distracts from the real problem with food prices: the price of oil.
Just thinking this through. Tell me what you think.
Your right—And there is no corn shortage, just huge
transfer of speculating money from real estate, bonds,
etc, to farm products, driving up the prices.
AND THERE IS NO SUBSIDY PAID FARMERS ON CORN.
The amount of money speculating on farm output has
went up 20 times in the last 8 years. The corn storage
is half full, which gets us to next harvest as usual
except speculators have driven up the price.And
farmers won’t refuse to sell at that price, as the
energy cost, also driven up by speculators, has raised
farms cost to raise that corn as much as the price
went up. It is not ethanol as on the market it is
cheaper than gas and has helped to moderate gas
prices and aid in the supply.Ed
The world's poor are learning what happens when government subsidizes the burning of food. It's time to end this madness and let the market decide if any biofuels make sense... The high cost of corn, wheat, soybeans and other basics of the world's diet could soon start bringing down governments.The price of petroleum has pushed up the price of everything, with food being very high on the list due to the fuel cost component being so large in modern food production, distribution, processing, etc.
Think about it but be careful what assumptions you make. Animal populations do not increase to the point of catastrophe. Their numbers grow to a level that is sustainable. The same should be true of humans. Look at the facts. There are many advanced countries that actually have negative population growth. In the absence of immigration growth America's population would be stable.
The real concern is what kind of people are increasing in number and what kind are declining.
Kind of a silly thing to say. Corn is fed to livestock. It is stupid to use cropland to grow fuel.
Of course not. Farmers are so pure and saintly they wouldn't accept it. The subsidy is paid to ethanol producers who pass the money on to farmers.
It never ceases to amaze me how defensive farmers are about this. They automatically assume that an attack on ethanol is an attack on farmers.
But tell me. If a politician were to go to a farm state and say he wanted to end ethanol mandates and subsidies, would farmers vote for him?
No it won't. You need to use petroleum to grow and produce ethanol. How many ethanol plants use ethanol for their own fuel fuel? How many farmers are fueling their equipment with ethanol?
There wouldn’t be biofuels if there was no breakeven point, so YES, biofuels will work. Some work better than others, obviously.
As of now biofuels don’t amount to much in the way of total use of production, and are not causing food shortages. The price of crude is driving up prices, and there is rising demand for food (as usual), along with some drought here and there.
Acreage under cultivation goes up and down, but due to improvements in yield (some of which is due to petrochemical use, including mechanization) acreage per capita has been on a slow decline in this country.
Breitbart (AP) article: Haiti President Announces Drop in Rice
(snip)
Globally, food prices have risen 40 percent since mid-2007. Haiti, where most people live on less than US$2 (euro1.26) a day, is particularly affected because it imports nearly all of its food, including more than 80 percent of its rice.
Much of Haiti's once-productive farmland has been abandoned as farmers struggle to grow crops in soil decimated by erosion, deforestation, flooding and tropical storms.
Reuters article: Haiti's government falls over food riots
Much of Haiti’s problems are the result of years of corrupt rule. No amount of aid will make any long term difference until that is changed.
There is a subsidy on corn, when the price of corn drops below a certain point the subsidy kicks in.
The low dollar, demand from China and elsewhere and ethanol has meant that the price of corn stays above that price point and the taxpayers has saved billions because of it even with the subsidy paid to the ethanol producers.
The farmers doing well also helps the economy. 90% of what the farmers need in made in the USA from seed to machinery. Those people worried about us sending our money to China should take note. The dollar more you spend on food stays in the country, if you save the dollar and spend it at Wal-Mart it goes to China never to be seen again.
Of course if cheap food is everybody goal then oppose ethanol and pay more in farm subsidies so there is overproduction. The trend of the number of farms and farmers has been going down for decades. Screw the grain farmer making a profit for change, the economics of farming with low prices and high costs will drive more and more farmers out of business and we end up importing most of our food at a much higher cost than Ethanol.
I believe just three or four years ago the price of corn adjusted for inflation was less than what it was in the 50’s.
I’ve argued with Dan on other thread. The ethanol
producers get no subsidy, only big gets a credir for
using ethanol. And this week, same as last week
ethanol is a buck a gal cheaper than gas on the
market, in spite of corn prices being driven up by
speculators. People in places like Haiti if they starve
it isn’t because of not enough corn it is becuase of
they don’t have the dough to pay the price as
driven up by speculators. Maybe the speculators should
take up a collection to ship them food!!!!!!!!!!!
You notice this slanted, crappy, biased, stupid,
lying, article is by investors who are trying to
steer blame away from a problem that is their
types of stupids. We’re not blind. we know
when they’re trying a snow job on us.
And if Haiti can’t raise food, they need to get a
way like the Saudis have, to buy it. With oil is what
I mean. Theres is huge oil resrves all around the
Gulf of Mexico, the Chinese are developing it in Cuba,
and I know Haiti gots some. They need to tell greenies
to go to hell, and get big oil off their duffs and
drill. All we hear about, is the Bakken field where it takes 20 wells to equal production of one platform in
the Gulf in the huge deep fields. Of course everyone will
find a hundred excuses why we can’t open new oil
sources as that would drop energy costs....Ed
An addition,I meant to say BIG
OIL gets a credit for using ethanol.Ed
PING
What difference does it make who gets the ethanol subsidy? The money flows downhill. The point is that without the mandates and without the subsidies we would not be burning food.
Mandates first— We needed mandates to get oxygenators in
gas to clean up the air in cities and it has worked.
And it has added to supply and ethanol is
less than gas.
You use the term burning food, well farmers have increased
the output of corn to cover ethanol production as well as
extra for imports. There is no shortage, just the prices
driven up by speculators. And about the trickle down,
hasn’t helped farmers this last year.Most farmers sold and
delivered at 4 bucks or less; and ethanol, cereal, guys had bins full for normal years run. All the extra money,
about 2 bucks has been made since by speculators
bidding up options. That does affect small guys who
didn’t or can’t buy huge amounts at harvest
So it boils down to that 1/3 of the raises
the CBOT corn price has mostly went into pockets of
speculators. Corn that ethanol plant has stored that
they got for 4 bucks, they are not going to sell it for
the 6 bucks it is now and shut down the plant.
Elevators with some stored will get high price as
customer needs are filled.But if a food mfg makes levels of money like cereal guys, over 200 dollars a bushel,
the difference in last 6 months would make it($3 more)
203 dollars. So if food went up 20% as some buyers
experience, that had to come from middlemen energy
expenses, greed, etc, but it sure ain’t the fault of the
extra 3 dollars of which speculators got 2. It is used as an excuse by middlemen.
We want gov to take away the 50some cents of tax
credit that big oil gets for adding ethanol and when
prices stay up 5-6 bucks what will you blame then.
You shut off that 450 barrels a day of ethanol in
the energy mix and then you will really what
the speculating will do to prices. If you stopped
ethanol Monday, the excuse it gives will have oil speculated to 140 bucks a barrel, by Wed.
The folks who have the most effective firearms and sufficient ammunition are the ones who have the most food to eat.
Correction—You shut off that “”450,000”” barrels
of ethanol per day and you will see what speculating does
to oil prices.
“I am alarmed by the rising prices at the supermarket, and the rate at which they are increasing.”
Another reason to stock up.
Among other things, I bought extra Bumble Bee canned salmon, because it’s good til 2013.
I only buy a little extra at a time, because I think panic will only make things worse.
Thanx. The vegetable garden is a great idea:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2000185/posts
I wonder what grows best in sandy soil.
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