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To: marktwain
> For many, that meaning has long been clear as glassmud: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I would be surprised if anyone could make sense of the Second Amendment: it is about the worst example of functionally-illiterate legalese I've seen. I've just tried in vain to parse the quoted text: I don't think that it is even a proper sentence. What is the Subject? What is the Verb? The four phrases join together into a massive non-sequitir.

Surely at least there is a comma-fault-or-two in there.

Naturally, it is unhelpful for a foreigner to criticize the work of the Founding Fathers without offering a suggested solution. Here's my best attempt:

"A well regulated Militia, beingis necessary to the security of a free State, ; therefore the right of the people to keep and bear Arms , shall not be infringed."

(armor on. Flame away!)
17 posted on 03/26/2008 2:15:52 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

Bless your support of the US, but please read up on some history of the Second Amendment and the language of the time. First of all, the original version of the second Amendment sent to the states for ratification did not have the last comma. Secondly, the grammatical construct used in the three-comma version was not uncommon for the time.

See, for example, http://www.guncite.com/second_amendment_commas.html.


20 posted on 03/26/2008 2:38:34 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: DieHard the Hunter

its the first couple words that really make it odd. look at the period interpretations of the words to make sense of it.
“well regulated militia” should be read as “properly equipped and trained citizens”


35 posted on 03/26/2008 5:35:02 AM PDT by absolootezer0 (white male christian hetero married gun toting SUV driving motorcycle riding conservative smoker)
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To: DieHard the Hunter; marktwain
All they meant was that the people were to be armed, in case a militia had to be formed. "Keep your guns handy, in case WE need you"

Of course, with an armed populace, "WE" would have to watch our step. That's because with an armed populace, we are not speaking of sportsmen potting the odd duck. We are talking about free men potting the odd government official.

We have the Bill of Rights, and the 2d amendment (note placement) is the part that keeps the Bill of Rights intact. Number 1 is the right to shoot your mouth off. Number 2 is the right to shoot anyone who tries to shoot you for shooting your mouth off.

39 posted on 03/26/2008 6:03:43 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (GOP Plank: Double Domestic Crude Production. Increase refining capacity 50percent)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
The 2nd is no more complicated than this sentence:

"It being a very rainy day, and John not having one, John took his raincoat from the closet.

Nothing in the first two clauses modifies the fact that John took his raincoat from the closet.

But if you really require an in-depth grammatical analysis of the 2nd you can find it here.

Hope it helps.

Regards,

L

55 posted on 03/26/2008 6:50:33 AM PDT by Lurker (Pimping my blog: http://lurkerslair-lurker.blogspot.com/)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
Pretty close.

"Since a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms as part of that Militia shall not be infringed by the federal government".

With this interpretation there is no need to "draw the line" on "arms". Whatever arms the state believes necessary to form a well regulated Militia are protected from federal infringement.

What about those not in a Militia? What about their arms? What about self defense and hunting? What about concealed carry? Those individual rights are defined and protected by each state constitution. Which is where that kind of protection belongs.

Clean. Crisp. Simple.

If the citizens of DC want handguns, let them elect a City Council who will vote that way. If the citizens of DC are content with the existing law, who are we to tell them how they will live in their city? What? We know better? It's for their own good?

Such arrogance! I thought liberals engaged in this crap, not conservatives.

74 posted on 03/26/2008 7:57:44 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: DieHard the Hunter
DieHard the Hunter said: "I don't think that it is even a proper sentence. "

Absolute phrases, like the dependent clause in the Second Amendment are quite common in Latin. This is not a grammatical structure that would be a mystery to our Founders, many of whom were highly educated in the classics.

Such absolute phrases represent a very weak way to tie two ideas together.

The Founders could have said, "BECAUSE a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state,..." but that ties the two clauses together more definitely than the authors wished.

The Founders could have said, "BECAUSE, AMONG OTHER REASONS, a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state,...". That would reduce the connection.

The absolute clause is the way to simply let the reader draw his own conclusions about the connection and eliminates the nature of the connection from consideration.

Here's an example: "The sun having risen above the clouds on the eastern horizon , Odysseus broke his fast."

Did the sun CAUSE him to break his fast. If the sun had not appeared, would Odysseus NOT have broken his fast. The sentence only communicates the temporal relationship between the two events.

The sentence could have been written as two independent sentences, but that would reduce the connection to only the temporal connection. The connection is stronger than that, and has to do with the fact that, prior to the appearance of the sun, Odysseus was probably asleep. But whether he was or wasn't, it isn't relevant to the independent clause. We know that Odysseus broke his fast.

152 posted on 03/26/2008 11:02:39 AM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: DieHard the Hunter
I would be surprised if anyone could make sense of the Second Amendment: it is about the worst example of functionally-illiterate legalese I've seen.

Actually, there has been substantial discussion about the grammar of the 2nd Amendment which includes this excellent chronology here on Free Republic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39388c210c1b.htm

Unfortunately, the Kakistocrats among us, even those who file amicus briefs with the Supreme Court refuse to do the research.

Best regards,

180 posted on 03/28/2008 5:43:19 AM PDT by Copernicus (California Grandmother view on Gun Control http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7CCB40F421ED4819)
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