Ramos and Compean, Rally and Prayer

01/08/08

[Ladycalif]

If you can not join us, please pray for Ramos and Compean this Sunday Morning*

'The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Join Ramos and Compean supporters this Sunday, January 6th at a rally in front of the Lake Forest, Saddleback Church

http://www.saddleback.com/flash/default.htm

Featured speaker at Saddleback Church this Sunday will be Chuck Colson, former White House Counsel - a key player during the Watergate scandal. Today, he is a religious talk show host and guest lecturer.

The Lake Forest Saddleback Church is one of the largest in Southern California - thousands of church goers will see the Free Ramos and Compean Rally as well as media in attendance at the Chuck Colson event.

The message FREE RAMOS and COMPEAN will be sent!

Ramos and Compean supporters will distribute flyers and educate the public on how to become an activist in the fight to free Ramos and Compean.

Bring American flags and Free Ramos and Compean signs - a limited number of signs will be available.

DATE Sunday, January 6

TIME 8:30am - 11:00am

LOCATION street in front of Saddleback Church 1 Saddleback Pkwy Lake Forest, CA

Cross streets are El Toro and Portola Pkwy.

http://www.saddleback.com/flash/drivedir.html

RADIO SHOW:

Chuck Colson http://www.wfil.com/ministryaudio/BreakPoint/ BreakPoint - Chuck Colson and Mark Earley

[AndrewC]

This is the part of code relevant to the discussion, para (c)1(A) in context.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 924

§ 924. Penalties
(a)...

(b)...

(c)

(1)

(A) Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided by this subsection or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries a firearm, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses a firearm, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime—

(i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years;

(ii) if the firearm is brandished, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 7 years; and

(iii) if the firearm is discharged, be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years.

(B) If the firearm possessed by a person convicted of a violation of this subsection—

(i) is a short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or semiautomatic assault weapon, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years; or

(ii) is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 30 years.

(C) In the case of a second or subsequent conviction under this subsection, the person shall—

(i) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 25 years; and

(ii) if the firearm involved is a machinegun or a destructive device, or is equipped with a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, be sentenced to imprisonment for life.

(D) Notwithstanding any other provision of law—

(i) a court shall not place on probation any person convicted of a violation of this subsection; and

(ii) no term of imprisonment imposed on a person under this subsection shall run concurrently with any other term of imprisonment imposed on the person, including any term of imprisonment imposed for the crime of violence or drug trafficking crime during which the firearm was used, carried, or possessed.

(2) For purposes of this subsection, the term “drug trafficking crime” means any felony punishable under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or the Maritime Drug Law Enforcement Act (46 App. U.S.C. 1901 et seq.).

(3) For purposes of this subsection the term “crime of violence” means an offense that is a felony and—

(A) has as an element the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the person or property of another, or

(B) that by its nature, involves a substantial risk that physical force against the person or property of another may be used in the course of committing the offense.

(4) For purposes of this subsection, the term “brandish” means, with respect to a firearm, to display all or part of the firearm, or otherwise make the presence of the firearm known to another person, in order to intimidate that person, regardless of whether the firearm is directly visible to that person.

(5) Except to the extent that a greater minimum sentence is otherwise provided under this subsection, or by any other provision of law, any person who, during and in relation to any crime of violence or drug trafficking crime (including a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime that provides for an enhanced punishment if committed by the use of a deadly or dangerous weapon or device) for which the person may be prosecuted in a court of the United States, uses or carries armor piercing ammunition, or who, in furtherance of any such crime, possesses armor piercing ammunition, shall, in addition to the punishment provided for such crime of violence or drug trafficking crime or conviction under this section—

(A) be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 15 years; and

(B) if death results from the use of such ammunition—

(i) if the killing is murder (as defined in section 1111), be punished by death or sentenced to a term of imprisonment for any term of years or for life; and

(ii) if the killing is manslaughter (as defined in section 1112), be punished as provided in section 1112.

[calcowgirl]

Way back when (a year ago), I went through the congressional record for the 105th Congress and read the discussion about the latest version of this law. I quickly became convinced that it never should have applied to R&C.

Here is a link (PDF) to part of that discussion (more took place in the House)

PL 105-386
S. 191 - THROTTLING CRIMINAL USE OF GUNS
House of Representatives - October 09, 1998
[Page: H10329]

[FOXFANVOX]

Great stuff. Eventually, if there is truly any justice, Sutton’s machinations will be revealed as illegal and unethical and will be rebuked.

[Ladycalif]

February 08

[Bob J]

And as you debate the finer points of 924 for a couple years, Ramos and Compean remain in prison when you could have gotten them released a long time ago by urging Hunter or Rohrbacher or Feinstein to simply submit legislation excluding LEO's who use their firearms in the normal course of their duties.

Congratulations, you have now become a wonk.

[Bob J]

"Eventually, if there is truly any justice, Sutton’s machinations will be revealed as illegal and unethical and will be rebuked."

Yes, because for you and others getting Sutton is far more important than getting R&C released from prison at the earliest possible opportunity.

[calcowgirl]

And as you debate the finer points of 924 for a couple years, Ramos and Compean remain in prison when you could have gotten them released a long time ago by urging Hunter or Rohrbacher or Feinstein to simply submit legislation excluding LEO's who use their firearms in the normal course of their duties.

Bob, please either 1) Have your anonymous legal advisor directly answer the questions already posed on the other thread here and here (and several other questions from Cyropaedia) or 2) quit spamming this unsupported blabbering on every R&C thread. Thanks in advance.

Congratulations, you have now become a wonk.

Thank you!

[Dante3]

I stopped replying to this lunatic when he/she/they started calling me names. Obviously not a rational person.

[Bob J]

Your questions are diversionary crap. How about you answer why you have done nothing to get Ramos and Compean freed at the earliest possible opportunity.

[calcowgirl]

See post #48.

[NormsRevenge]

How about you answer why you have done nothing to get Ramos and Compean freed at the earliest possible opportunity.

—

Hey Bob, why don’t you go pack sand bags or something and try and be useful yourself?

or better yet, go polish your Johnny Sutton can do no wrong coffee cup.

[NormsRevenge]

It seems as if there are some here who want this sad situation to continue because it is good PR and furthers
an agenda that doesn’t include freeing Ramos and Compean.

People reading here need to consider this and wonder if they are being duped and used to advance an agenda that doesn’t have the welfare and safety of out Border Patrol at heart.

—

Man, you are a piece of work.

Malign a bunch of folks with a single broad brush, why don’t cha?

[Bob J]

“It seems as if there are some here...”

What part of “some here” seems to escape you?

[NormsRevenge]

You haven’t hid your feelings toward a few here. That’s for sure.

[Bob J]

NR, I’ve been on these threads for a year and I’m certain that some of the most vocal are pushing a border security/Bush Sux/New World Order agenda and don’t give a wit about Ramos or Compean.

[NormsRevenge]

lol.. I well remember you and a couple others from way back, it’s been going on a lot longer than a year, btw.

The agents got what they had coming and such was one of the most galling comments. at least you’re still around unlike most, I’ll give ya that..

as to ‘the most vocal pushing a border security/Bush Sux/New World Order agenda and don’t give a wit about Ramos or Compean’ ...

There may be a couple, .. So? FR is not immune to dark shades of gray nor bright sunlight.

I hardly would consider myself in the group of the latter two, but if criticism of elected and appointed officials with obvious motives to not do the best job possible for
America first irritates, then just stick around.

Especially if a nudnick like Huckabee gets the nod from the Gop which I seriously doubt, but life is strange, just ask Johnny Sutton how strange it and “justice” is.

[Bob J]

“There may be a couple, .. So?”

Because they are the most vocal and have been misleading the good people still left on FR. They loudly proclaim the innocense of R&C and then demand a pardon or commutation knowing this will not absolve them of their guilt in the incident. They claim they want them out of jail but for more than a year ignore the one solution that would get them released immediately AND protect future LEO’s from the same legal danger.

Many of these are people pushing an agenda, whether that is border issues, hatred of brown people, hatred of Bush or the illuminati and new world order. They don’t want to see the issue resolved, they want it to continue as long as possible because it provides them a fig leaf and soap box for their true intentions.

They don’t tell people the truth about what happened out there in Fabens that afternoon. Their agenda is superior to the rule of law and precious constitutional principles and for that reason they need to be countered at every turn.