Do Gun Free Zones Create A Legal Liability?

Captain's Quarters ^ | Dec. 10, 2007 | Ed Morrissey

[Panzerfaust]

Some great posts on this thread. I'd add that your inability to carry in a posted location, should you be subsequently harmed in that location, will probably not allow you to sue the posting owner.

After all, it is not essential that you go to a mall that is posted as a no-carry zone. If you go in unarmed, it was of your own free will, with no expectation that anyone has to guarantee your safety. Recall the Washington D.C. case that established the fact that the police have no legal obligation to protect you from criminals, which came from the incident where the cops failed to respond to repeated 911 calls from the victims of a home invasion/rape incident.

Now, if the police in Washington DC are not legally liable for a failure to protect citizens (even though the notorious D.C. gun laws essentially disarm the citizens there), I'm betting that the owner of a mall who tells you "No Guns Allowed" will not be liable, especially when you could easily go to another mall.

If, however, you are compelled to appear in a location and are forced to appear unarmed (let's say you have to report for jury duty and it's "No Guns Allowed" at the courthouse), then you might well have a case that someone else is responsible for your safety while you are on the premises. Still, I go back to the DC example cited above, and I'm betting you would have a tough case to prove.

[Kozak]

Agree. The MOST they can do is ask you to leave.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

I don’t know about “gun free zones” but I’d support “gum free zones” - I’m sick of stepping in discarded gum on the sidewalk and also finding it stuck to the undersides of desks.

[TYVets]

The only gun free zone I shop on a regular basis is Bass Pro Shop, Springfield, Missouri.

My personal opinion is the parking lot of gun free Malls and other business is the parking lot, not inside the store.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Please see my post 42 before you try to advise me on what I should assume.

(And your anecdotes do not address my specific question.)

[Kozak]

It also exempts LEO active and retired, judges, magistrates etc from these restrictions.

Ah yes. Our "Overlords". Guess they have some SPECIAL right to safety us cattle don't.

[SUSSA]

I was responding to your post # 64 which said: “Please don’t give ignorant legal advice. What you say is untrue in many or most states.”

I doubt that it’s true that in “most” or even “many” states there is no penalty for ignoring those signs. Anyone who travels with their gun shouldn’t assume that.

I missed your post #42 which is much better advice.

One shouldn’t have to check what the rules are. But we do. I hate to see anyone disarmed, especially for something silly like violating some stupid rule.

[Atlas Sneezed]

I doubt that it’s true that in “most” or even “many” states there is no penalty for ignoring those signs.

---

When you give legal advice to a national board that is patently wrong in many instances, then my post 64 was perfectly applicable. Especially in the context of post 42, which made it clear that in no way was I suggesting that all states have no legal consequences for disobeying the signs.

And please don’t give legal advice based in your ignorant “doubts.”

[Freedom2specul8]

marked to read later...

[Dick Vomer]

I just ignore the signs.

what a novel idea. I never thought of that. /sarc

[Panzerfaust]

Agree with the gum-free thing. Was in Vegas last week playing poker at the Venetian, and got a big wad of gum stuck on the leg of my trousers, when my thigh touched the underside of the poker table.

Well, the poker room manger was horrified and said he'd sent somebody right over to get it off my pants. Looking at all the beautiful waitresses in the Venetian, the other players were jealous, as they were certain I'd have an interesting experience.

Lo and behold, this middle-aged guy comes out, snapping on a pair of rubber gloves as he comes towards me. Of course, the whole table is laughing it up as this poor guy has to scrub the gum off my thigh, telling him to be gentle and to make sure his hands are warm before touching me!

I think he had the worst of the whole experience, though I did tip him $10 for getting the gum off and not ruining my pants or leaving a bruise. I left the table $400 ahead and got to meet poker pro Chris "Jesus" Ferguson (a very polite gentleman), so I'd say I came out ahead for the day......

[dread78645]

How does a magnotometer distinguish between the minial metal in my glock and someone eles’s car keys?

I guess you haven't been in a court-house in the last 20 years.

1. Put your keys, coins, & pocketknife in a cup on the side table.
2. Walk thru the magnetometer.
3. Pick up your belongings on the other side.

[Bear_Slayer]

So you are saying that you will have to empty your pockets to get into the mall, as if you were getting on a plane?

I understand it is done in countries such as Israel, but I doubt Americans will approve of it.

Americans are too busy to put up with that.

[Rick.Donaldson]

Thanks for the ping. Didn’t see the blog, did they take them down AFTER the fact then?? I suppose it would mean “Please, armed citizens, carry please....”??

[Rick.Donaldson]

I would think it was “legal” for someone to carry in the mall to begin with. I haven’t read the laws in Neb. per se, but there are no “prohibited places” in our state.

People put those signs up as a sign they are ‘anti-gun’. I’m sure that those who do think they are protecting the public, but they are not doing so. They are opening the door to those who intend on doing harm, without fear of being stopped by a local citizen with a gun. That’s all they are doing.

At this point, I suggest we all get on the “band wagon” and start pushing for killing the gun free zones (ok, no pun intended there)....

[dread78645]

So you are saying that you will have to empty your pockets to get into the mall, as if you were getting on a plane?

Yep. Particularly if the mall rent-a-cop is manning the machine.

I understand it is done in countries such as Israel, but I doubt Americans will approve of it.

They won't get a choice. Did you or I get a say when the airline's security became federal employees? Or when your bank became an agent for the IRS?

Americans are too busy to put up with that.

Don't bet on it.
Americans want to rest safely in the arms of the nanny-state and will put up with just about anything to get that warm, snuggly feeling against terrorists, dopers, second-hand smoke, skateboarders, and the heartbreak of psoriasis.

Kay: "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

[ArrogantBustard]

The blogger is claiming:

1) Anti-gun signs used to be posted

2) The signs are now (post shooting) gone

3) Look --- here are pictures of where the signs used to be.

That would seem to explain our earlier dilemma, where some folks were claiming that the mall was "posted" and others were claiming it wasn't.

Please, armed citizens, carry please.

That would be consistent with Virginia concealed carry law ... not sure about Neb.

[Sender]

Thanks for the links, it looks like I would be legal to carry at the mall but not at church or school. Our churches and schools around here don’t have armed guards. So I guess anyone carrying at church or school must be a “bad guy”. I can see why they might make strict regulations at schools but not for churches. And anyplace where carry is forbidden, it seems incumbent upon the authorities of such facilities to provide adequate security.

[Melas]

No. In Texas it would be a class A misdemeanor which can mean up to a year in prison and a $4,000 fine. At the minimum, lifetime revocation of your CCL a fine and probation. Misdemeanor clarification: In Texas you are ineligable for a CCL if you’ve been convicted of a felony or a weapons related misdemeanor.