Posted on 12/02/2007 7:55:55 PM PST by Bowtie52
A small town in West Central Florida during the Christmas season of 06-07. A small community located between Clearwater and Tampa boasting roughly 17,000 residents within City limits. Safety Harbor is best known for the Spa which is almost a City within a City where celebrities play. Outside of the Spa, Main Street is decorated with lights, larger than life foil candles on the light posts, a Huge Christmas tree near the gazebo at the center of town as well as a Menorah both in the door of City Hall and the park land surrounding the gazebo. All was most tastefully done and the pride of a small town was evident. My wife noticed the absence of a Nativity Scene. We thought we must have missed it so we drove through town a second time looking for it. No Nativity scene.
The next day we went to the City Hall and asked the receptionist if we had missed the Nativity or if it was true that none was displayed. In a very matter of fact tone, she told us that the town had to take theirs down in the early 1990’s and had never thought about getting a replacement. We asked if they (the town leaders) wanted one, she answered in the affirmative. With a Wal-Mart around the corner the situation seemed easily resolvable. Within an hour, we returned to City Hall with a Nativity scene, still in the box, which was our donation to the City. We left it with the receptionist who assured us that it would be put up the following day, which it was. That was Dec. 20, 2006. By Dec 22, it was taken down due to a complaint from a resident.
We were very upset as the Town authorities were unavailable during the “winter break” season; there was no one to approach as to why the donated scene had been removed. After Christmas, we approached the City Manager who explained how bad he felt having to remove it and how the law precluded any real flexibility on his part. I asked “which law is that?”, he did not have a ready answer. The story made the St. Pete Times and many residents were somewhat outraged. One resident, Linda, took it upon herself to gather signatures to assure the Scene would be available for display, the following year. She collected in excess of 650 signatures within the next few months.
Meanwhile, we researched and collected some legal data. It seems the ACLU likes to threaten small towns, which do not have a budget to fight them. The goal is to threaten them into removing the Nativity scenes citing a breach of the separation of Church and State. Their claim is that public property can not be used to support religious symbols. This is a lie and a bluff as we found out later. They intimidate these towns and count their tactics as a victory with which to intimidate other towns. It is a game to them as they could care less about Nativity scenes; however, it brings no end of anxiety to those of us who feel that our religious rights have been trampled. Things like this happen in Red China, not in the USA! The more I researched, the more I realized that the ACLU pursues a Communist agenda.
For the future, should other citizens run into this in their town; this is what Federal law reads; The Court held that "...religious expression cannot violate the Establishment clause where it is private or occurs in a traditionally or designated public forum and is open to all on equal terms". The Court went on to say "It is constitutional that Nativity scenes or other religious symbols on property that is considered to be open for the use of the public such as public squares where other displays, are permitted.
As of Dec. 1, Safety Harbor has installed a beautiful Nativity Scene, in the shadow of the Gazebo, in the center of town. There has been no presentation of the petition, no discussion of any kind this year. The City Counsel provided a Scene far better than the one we donated and had it put up in a professional way. There are all the various decorations including Santa, Christmas looking lights, the tree, reindeer and the like. It’s all there and so is baby Jesus. On Mon. evening several citizens are going to approach the Counsel and ask for assurance that the Display will not be removed for situational or political reasons. In addition, we will present the petition and the legal reference so that it becomes a part of the minutes of the meeting.
In the war on Christmas, we need to celebrate even the little victories.
ping
My 7 year old granddaughter is helping me decorate this year. So of course we are putting everything up. So that means all the nativity sets I’ve collected over the years. I’m thinking that there will be at least 10.
It seems the ACLU likes to threaten small towns, which do not have a budget to fight them.Commies are nothing more than thugs and bullies with a megalomania complex.
I wish those rare complainers would have their names and addresses posted in public, the same way that the gov’t wants to post info on CCW license holders.
I’m betting that the singular complainer, who always seems to be at the heart of these ridiculous bans, might think twice.
Of course, the best option would be for our representatives to stop caving in to these few malcontents, and tell them to go pound sand.
But these things need to make the news - Rush needs to read the law on air.
Everyone of us needs to print the law out and take it to our town officials and write letters to the editors - (today, so it will be printed in time) stating the law - I will quote it In my Christmas Column - working title "Christmas is Back" = with legal teeth.
I sense a turning of the tide. Most every store I've gone in this year is playing Christmas carols - and big stores like Walmart are back to recognizing Christmas and allowing the Red Kettle...
I make it a point to track down the managers and tell them how much I appreciate it - think I'll print the law and give it to them as their backup...
small town America is where the true Patriots live -anymore.
That is key. More people should do the same. Managers remember this as it is much more pleasant that the people who only complain.
Springtown TX has a big Merry Christmas sign backed up with
a big cross on the town square.
That sign which reads “Merry Christmas” should have a smaller message for the Anti-Christian Lunatics Union-”Deal with it!”
The local mall shows NO signs of Christmas, but lots of "holiday," "wish," "magic" and other PC decorations. Since we were Christmas shopping, it appears we went to the wrong mall......so we shopped elsewhere, where Christmas shopping was welcome and celebrated.
So much for stores that suppress using the word "Christmas" in any context
The local mall shows NO signs of Christmas, but lots of "holiday," "wish," "magic" and other PC decorations. Since we were Christmas shopping, it appears we went to the wrong mall......so we shopped elsewhere, where Christmas shopping was celebrated.
“...so we shopped elsewhere...”
Way to go, MamaDearest.
Hah!
In these parts I believe that part is implied...
Amen, BT52.
Funny, the constitution said freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
Yet the insidious distortion of law --in this the land of the free-- continues unquestioned & unabated to this very day.
Our *courageous* politicians could have easily put the entire matter to rest once & for finally, long ago but haven't.
The august pols, to my knowledge, don't plan to challenge the ACLU et al anytime soon and therein lies the very core of this (& many other) problems, doesn't it?
Wondering aloud just what *kind* of urgent business is tieing up our courageous politicians these days that this issue in particular isn't being addressed, one way or the other? {/sarc} ;^)
In any event this Bud's for you.
...Mr D. ;^)
My name is Brad and I am the person in Bowtie’s article that had the original objection to the Nativity Scene in Safety Harbor Florida. There are a few things I wish to address and straighten out, as we all know there are two sides to very story.
1) My objection was never a “War on Christmas” objection. When the Nativity Scene was displayed last year, it was done so alone. Meaning without the accompiment of any other religious articles. I am Jewish; therefore seeing a Nativity Scene outside city hall was upsetting to me. I only found out later that a Menorah was on display at a city park several blocks away.
2) I am not a member of the ACLU nor did I ever contact the ACLU regarding this issue. I do not see where the ACLU fits into this issue.
3) I found it a little troubling that this editorial does not point out or address the friendship that I thought had occurred with this issue. Several weeks after my objection, Bowtie52 contacted me, and offered to meet with me over coffee. I thought about it, and decided to meet with him. We have since formed a friendship, and while I am your typical Jewish-American Democrat, I do respect his views and feel he has every right to proceed with his convictions. Isn’t that what America is all about??
4) I am vehemently against religious displays on gov’t property, and always will be. For those of you that are for them, would you be as supportive if Muslims, Wiccans or members of the Church of Scientology wanted their displays on city parks or other gov’t buildings? How would you like it if you’re strolling through the park and see a pentagram in your face? If you don’t think that can happen, just out this link: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071215/GPG0101/712150670/1207
The “Wall of Separation” as Thomas Jefferson put it, should exist for a reason. When the gov’t endorses a faith, it is simply opening up a can of worms for others faiths to follow. As with school prayer, if members of the school board were non-Christian, would you be for it? An FYI folks, not everyone in American is a Christian.
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