Posted on 10/21/2007 8:35:38 PM PDT by jellybean
Everybody Was Good; Fred, Rudy, and Huck Were Best Wow. By far, the best debate of the cycle in either party. Just about everybody came out swinging, took some lumps, countered, made the crowd laugh, spurred applause, and jabbed at the moderators. The crowd was fired up, and the moderators took an aggressive tack that shook any lingering lethargy out of the candidates. Feel confident, Republicans. One way or another, the GOP is going to have a good debater representing it next year.
Winner or winners? Tough to call, because I think we saw just about every candidate at their best tonight, even the no-hopers like Duncan Hunter and Tom Tancredo. So I’ll classify the participants a bit differently this evening:
Helped Themselves a Lot Tonight:
Fred Thompson: Frankly, he needed it. He really should have gotten a bigger chunk of the vote at the Family Research Council summit straw poll, and let’s face it, we had been waiting for any speech, any debate appearance, any event with Thompson to be a “wow, that was fantastic.” Well, tonight was that moment we’ve been waiting for, maybe none better than his answer to Wendell Goler’s question/accusation of laziness. His answer on the lobbying for the abortion group was strong, too – ‘look at my votes, and the pro-choice folks I worked for are pulling this out now because they fear me.’ Finally – finally! – we’re seeing what we wanted to see in Thompson – homespun, able to make his case simply, directly, and clearly, and with a bit of humor here and there.
Rudy Giuliani: The first time I thought Rudy Giuliani could be president was at his 2004 convention speech, where he hit all kinds of emotional notes just right. Similar performance tonight – maybe heavy on laughs - but it worked. Pugnacious, quick thinker on his feet, engaging. And, as usual, if you lead the polls, and nobody walks out of a debate talking about your gaffes or bad answers (and other than a slightly weird joke about not being sure that he didn’t accidentally perform a gay marriage, Rudy didn’t have many bad moments) you won. Rudy won’t lose ground; this is a candidate and a campaign hitting all cylanders at just the right time. He took some shots, but the attacks were probably old news to those following the race day in, day out.
Mike Huckabee: After the FRC summit, he’s the social conservative choice, and if he gets the nomination, Hillary won’t know what hit her. This guy can sell ice to Eskimos. Kept his momentum, and played against his "the funny one" typecasting with his argument, "there's nothing funny about Hillary Clinton as Commander in Chief."
Probably Helped Themselves a Little Tonight:
John McCain: Some great lines, and once again, a candidate felt the need to salute McCain’s service in the miltiary as well as in the Senate. We’ll see if this performance does him good in the polls – he did a great speech at the FRC, and it got him nowhere. I think the aspect I liked most was that he could jab at his rivals, but it never seemed too nasty or cranky. He’s got stature. He’s a well-established brand name, and I wonder if he’s turning into everyone’s second or third choice.
Mitt Romney: One of his strongest performances, but it seemed like somebody put a “kick me” sign on his back right before he went on. On the other hand, it’s a sign of where he is in the race that Thompson, Giuliani, and McCain see value in attacking him at this moment. Kathryn said he could have used the PowerPoint slides on one answer. But great jabs at Hillary, and seemed to feed off the crowd's energy.
Oh, and I vote for the mussed-up hair.
Thanks For Playing: Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, and Ron Paul. Come back when you’re at ten percent in one of the early primary states or a national poll.
UPDATE: In my e-mailbox, every campaign thinks their guy won. I know this will come as a great surprise to you. I pledge, any campaign that sends me an e-mail: "EXPERTS AGREE: OUR GUY LOST, BIG-TIME; PUNDITS CALL PERFORMANCE 'CATASTROPHIC' AND 'EMBARRASSING" I will print in this space in its entirety.
Oh, I agree that this isn’t some foreign plot. :) I just don’t know that the perspective of non-Americans on what candidate was best necessarily tracks with the perspective of Americans. It’s hard to handicap the race and evaluate a performance even in-country; I imagine it would be even more difficult from an outsider’s perspective.
For example, I worked with a nice lady from Toronto who literally thought that she was going to get shot when she came to the US for a meeting. She might overestimate the support for gun rights in this country (whereas we know that our gun rights are under attack and are not universally supported). Who knows...
Great post. A liberal like Giuliani would be an absolute DISASTER for the Republican Party.
Is the debate video posted anywhere so we can watch it online?
That’s why it’s a good idea to come up to speed on futures markets in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prediction_market
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/technology/ea97f2a9d5123110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/3.html
Even money says Ron Paul’s followers bugged the author more than anyone else, probably accusing him of “hiding the truth that This Honorable Man was the real winner of the debate”.
WOW! Where do you get your history??? The MSM? Fred DID vote to convict on the obstruction of justice charge. You can read his comments for yourself. It is only required that he be found guilty on one of the charges to be removed from office.
You might want to take that up with the owner of the website.
Anyone have a link to watch it online....?
I haven't seen a full video yet, but here is a clip from the beginning of the debate.
Thanks for the info! It would be fun to compare some of the larger markets to see whether they tend to be in synch in terms of predictions.
I thought it was especially interesting that, according to the second link, the markets using play money tend to be as accurate as those using real money.
HA! See the post just below yours. :)
I can’t wait to watch it. Reading about it has been great, but the candidates’ delivery and facial expressions are 75% of the fun.
Hopefully, there will be transcripts of both.
I do think federalism is one of the best bulwarks against loss of sovreignty (since power concentrated in 50 state capitals can't be sold off by one guy in DC). But it's a vital enough issue that it would be good to hear it directly and frequently addressed.
I don't see that as protection. In fact, the way Schwarzenegger is forging GW agreements with other U.S. states and states of other countries tells me that federalism could actually accelerate the globalist agenda depending on the focus.
Agreed, absolutely. I did like one of Thompson's commentaries that pointed out the "global warming" on Mars
That was good but more recently, Fred says he thinks climate change is real and that we have to come up with a solution "on a global basis," with India and China participating. He, admittedly, is more guarded than the whackos out there saying "the debate is over," but I want to hear more. His words thus far are not encouraging. In fact, I haven't heard anyone but Duncan at this point say anything good on this subject.
I'm not sure why this hasn't been covered in the debates, with all the hoopla over the Goreacle...??
Probably because the MSM is still driving the questions and they don't want to let us see all the answers we wouldn't like! LOL.
I saw a few minutes here, a few minutes there, probably didn’t hear something from every single candidate, but close. But the impression I came away with still was that the whole thing went well, for probably just about every candidate. Saw Romney laugh appreciatively at something he set up Rudy for, and got effectively countered by Rudy-—almost as though they were working for each other, rather than against. But NEVER underestimate just how much can be added to these debates, usually sorry affairs, when you have someone as truly fair and NON-condescending as Chris Wallace handling the questions. He is more and more becoming an essential media guy, very impressive.
Thanks—something’s better than nothing.
Fred looked good there. Did he keep up the pace throughout the debate?
Wow,...while not being the whole debate...that was very interesting.
Rudy looked very weak in his replies. Fred was beating them down!
Hey—the debate is replaying for a third time right now (in California, anyway).
I know the rebroadcast the interviews after the second airing, so they may air them again. If you’re still up, you might want to set that Tivo again to catch the post-debate interviews.
You fear that a Hillary Clinton term in office could be the last for freedom in our nation, and I fear that several more administrations like the one we just went through, and we will lose those freedoms anyway. Let me try to explain why. Then you can tell me where I have it wrong.
Hillary Clinton is a very dangerous person. She is an exceptionally good liar. She has been fraternizing with the Communist Chinese since the 1980s and perhaps even into the 70s. It is also my opinion that she was involved with the Dixie Mafia back into the 1980s as well. We could spend hours going back to review the sordid details. I'm not sure it's worthy of the effort. Nobody seems to give a rat's ass. Criminality surrounds the Clintons. People drop dead around them. Women were exploited. Some were likely raped. Others were viciously beaten. Bubba displays all the classic traits of a very bad sexual abuser.
His wife knew it. His staff knew it. State officals knew it. The DNC knew it. Whats more, and this is the important part, the Republican Party knew it. People in Congress knew it. People in the Senate knew it. He was impeached in the House. In the Senate he was given a free pass by the Republican leadership.
You have to ask yourself what's up with this. The man (and we're actually talking about his wife too) was exhonerated for land flips, selling state commissions in Arkansas, substance abuse, the abuse of women which was quite extensive, being paid by top generals in China for what was probably extensive access to the top secrets of our nation, in essence espionage. We're talking treason level activity. Okay, that's pretty bad isn't it. Not only were Clinton and company doing all sorts of despicable criminal acts, they were being allowed to skate on all this because the Republicans... oh yes, why would Republicans allow this? That's a good question.
As long as attention is focused on the Clintons, nobody wants to focus on what the Repblicans are up to. Oh they allow the ICC to go into effect because they're too busy with other things. They're too busy to fix illegal immigration because it's been going on for a long time and we wouldn't want to offend anyone. They don't fight for limited government any longer. They propose and pass new great society programs just like Lyndon Johnson did. He has cost us trillions by now, and our current leader will have cost us untold additional trillions by the time his new plan plays out over the upcoming decades. We have a school system that is teaching our children not to honor God. It is also teaching them that the U.S. was and still is a terrible nation, a pariah state. Our founding fathers and even Christopher Columbus are vilified. Everything this nation stands for is belittled and trashed. Our founding fathers are nothing, Martin Luther King and Rosa Parks the real leaders to be admired. Then the cherry on the ice cream is the teaching of homosexuality in our public schools clear down to the first few grades. Birth control pills are now given to eleven year olds up north. The parents don't even have to be notified. In fact, I doubt they can be. Privacy issues are very important you know. And one last thing, children there is no right and wrong. What really counts is how you feel about yourself. You can grown up to be the governor or even a president, do all manner of evil things, but as long as you smile and think highly of yourself, that's what really counts and people will admire you.
All this takes place under a Republican President. He hasn't made so much as a peep about it. And during the first few years of his presidency, he doubled the budget for the Department of Education. Healthcare is now provided by nurse practioners on campuses. We foot that bill. All the little illegal aliens kids are given health care you and I have to pay for it with our hard earned dollars.
Do you begin to see why it doesn't matter who is really in charge. We move further left every four years. We have controlled the Presidency for all but 12 years since 1968. In thirty-nine years, we have been in control of the White House for 27 years. We were in contol of Congress and the Senate for ten of those years and couldn't do squat. We actually took a pass on a Chinese sleeper in the office of the Presidency, rather than show some backbone.
There is now a move to bring the United States, Canada and Mexico under a mutual security agreement. That mutural security agreement will be the second step toward joining all three nations into one pseudo nation. Once that is accomplished, the whole of the Americas from the Arctic Circle to the Antarctic, will become one large Free Trade of the Americas Association. As this is implemented, we will lose our sovereignty one step at a time. In the end, many of our laws will be so wrapped up in the FTAA agreement, what we will no longer be able to make our own laws without checking with the other nations in the Americas.
I'm not going to bother going into this any further. Suffice it to say, the Republican party is all for this. We're not talking about Hillary Clinton here. We're talking about our own side of the isle selling out the sovereignty of our nation. I would wager that the Senate will pass the UN LOST treaty and Bush will sign it. The guy is just one more in a long line of idiot presidents that don't see sovereignty or foreign entanglements as any concern at all. They are selling us out lock stock and barrel.
The ultimate point of all this, is that we want conservative leaders who will not buy into this. If we do not take a stand, and take that stand now, these agreements are going to be pushed through. We will lose our sovereignty and it will be all over except for the wake.
We can go ahead and put someone like Rudy in, someone who is not well grounded and doesn't give a rats ass about sovereignty or other complex issues he won't be called to address until after he is elected. And when he is in there, he will waffle on these issues and pass them just like Hillary would.
A lot of this would have taken place by now, but there was an unexpected candidate who refused to have the mic he paid for nearly thirty years ago turned off. Ronald Wilson Reagan wasn't supposed to make it into office. He did. He interruped the planned presidency of George Herbert Walker Bush. This threw a monkey wrench into the works.
We can either wake up to what is going on and throw some more monkey wrenches in, or we can let Hillary or Rudy go ahead and complete the selling out of the United States.
You can vote for Rudy if you like. You will have convinced yourself that we can't have Hillary in there because she's evil. You can convince yourself that Rudy is better. At least he's an "R". It won't make any difference. Either we get a true conservative in who truly understand why we shouldn't sell our birthright, or we will see this nation handed over by a leftist. It will either be their leftist or it will be our leftist.
If we don't elect a Thompson or a Hunter, this nation will cease to be a sovereign nation.
The last chance we have if a true conservative isn't elected, is to let Hillary in and let her destroy herself. If we try to block it with our own leftist, it won't matter if she or he does it. It will be done.
If Hillary gets in and goes postal, we can hope the public picks up on it and cancels her ride. Otherwise it's simply a done deal. We either get a consevative in, or we refuse be a party to our own destruction. And then we hold that bitch's feet to the fire every moment of her term in office.
Look, that's how I see it. I will not be a party to any more leftist treachery in this nation, and I consider RINOs to be some of the most destructive leftists on the face of planet earth. They sneak in from our side and then everyone tunes out, prays for them, and allows them to deconstruct conservatism unopposed for four years. What's worse, if someone wakes up to it, they are called every name in the book simply because they love this nation and won't sit still for what fearless leader is doing.
This administration has practically destroyed conservatism single-handedly. No, I'm not going to play along like this again. Bring on the witch. If we're going to go down, I want a leftist witch to be responsible for it. Don't let history write that a 'conservative' 'republican' sold us out. God forbid that ultimate insult.
Give it some thought. Come to your own conclusion. Do what you have to do. Good luck.
Bolton’s not running, although we can dream someone will throw him back into the game as Sec of State. If he can’t fire all the libs at state let him transfer them all to Zimbabwe or some other harmless attrition encouraging post. Of those actually running Tom “bomb Mecca’ Tancredo should scare them the most. He’s actually more reasonable than his press coverage, but they wouldn’t realize that.
Thank you! Done and done.
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