Posted on 10/16/2007 8:20:00 AM PDT by shrinkermd
Idon't know if life begins at conception. I don't really know what "life" means. Consciousness? Possessing a soul? Well, if consciousness defines the issue, then life surely does not begin at conception. Not even the most adamant pro-lifer claims otherwise.
As for souls, I believe we have them, but I don't know how they work. Indeed, ensoulment -- the process by which God puts a soul in our bodies -- is a controversial topic among religious scholars, people who know a lot more about such things than I do. And I'm not sure any of them are right anyway....
...In death penalty cases, "reasonable doubt" goes to the accused because unless we're certain, we must not risk an innocent's life. This logic goes out the window when it comes to abortion, unless you are 100% sure that babies only become human beings after the umbilical cord is cut. I don't see how you can be that sure, which is why I'm pro-life -- not because I'm certain, but because I'm not.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
I know many will disagree with Goldberg's reasoning but it his hard to disagree with his final conclusion.
Very, very fuzzy thinking in this article.
He doesn’t know what “life” is? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know the difference between alive and dead.
Good grief. If his only reason for supporting the right to life is that it’s “unfashionable,” then I really wonder about his mental health. I like to go against the trend, too, but not if the trend is right, only if it’s fashionably wrong.
Maybe there’s something inside of him that says, “Jonah, those are little, tiny, helpless human beings that are being killed!” But he just doesn’t quite understand it.
His analysis is rather weak (there is a far better pro-life case to be made on purely scientific/rational grounds), but at least he’s being honest here.
I guess this means that plants are not alive?!
Well then allow me to make the claim.
What about "the fetal position"?
Obviously when one is at the most vulnerable and insure, the act of seeking security in the fetal position proves beyond all doubt that life begins at conception.
Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you very much.
“He doesn’t know what “life” is? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know the difference between alive and dead.
You notice that the pro-choice folks have gotten around that by saying “well, the life isn’t viable.”
Of course, that argument is circular because if you end it in the womb, it will become viable enough for discussion.
“He doesn’t know what “life” is? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know the difference between alive and dead.
You notice that the pro-choice folks have gotten around that by saying “well, the life isn’t viable.”
Of course, that argument is circular because if you end it in the womb, it will never become viable enough for discussion.
What is happening to the LA TIMES.... yesterday it was exposing Fabio Numbnuts, today its pro-life and cow emissions! The new ownership is going for a “fair and balanced” newspaper! Well hardy har har!
He is probably simply in the early stages of a belief that will one day grow more powerful. He also provided an explanation as to why it is normal to switch from pro-chice to pro-life, but abnormal to switch the other way (as the 'rats do).
Actually I don’t know what life is either, though we all know it’s different from non-life.
And more than an elaborate parlor trick of the carbon atom.
I also stumble over the assumption that religious scholars “know” more than anyone else about such things. If only!!
As it is, only God really knows what He’s doing. This can be a comforting thought.
My first thought also. To me, it means that consciousness does *not* define the issue. :)
>> Very, very fuzzy thinking in this article.
Actually - I think it is the most logical approach to abortion politics I’ve seen in a while. I believe life begins at conception ... but I certainly cannot prove it. This is, by and large, a matter of faith.
What is unquestionable, however, is that pro-choicers also cannot prove that life DOESN’T begin at conception. This is the abortion version of the logic of believing in God argument (i.e. “If there is no God, and I believe in God - no harm, no foul. If there IS a God, and you shun Him ... you’re SOL.”).
Similarly - if we are wrong, and life doesn’t begin at conception ... no harm, no foul - we’ve simply allowed the gestation of eventual lives that would’ve otherwise been aborted. However, if pro-choicers are wrong, and life DOES begin at conception ... then you’ve unquestionably allowed the termination of innocent lives, and you’re SOL.
I think this is a distinctly logical approach to a faith-based and emotional issue. When it comes to the beginnings of life, nobody is sure to a scientific certainty when life begins ... thus it is entirely logical to err on the side of caution, and allow such possible lives to continue to their natural conclusions.
H
Who wrote this? Some South Central gang-banger?
"Man, I be representin' pro-life 'cause, you know...I'm just keepin' it real for the little homies in the womb."
Who wrote this? Some South Central gang-banger?
"Man, I be representin' pro-life 'cause, you know...I'm just keepin' it real for the little homies in the womb."
Well, the difference between life and non-life is pretty obvious, except possibly in the case of the most primitive organisms.
I will agree that when you talk about souls, it becomes more complicated.
But the Founders spoke of an inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and if you start messing with those basic rights, of which the right to life is most basic of all, then you soon find yourself in deep water, trying to figure out who deserves to live, or to be free, and who doesn’t.
We can agree, scientifically as well as religiously, that a fetus is both human and living from the moment of conception, until it is killed. And that the purpose of an abortion is to kill it.
Pretty simple, really. Life grows. Whether it's animal or plant, life grows.
What happens at conception? The egg splits--it grows.
Life begins at conception.
It is written:
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you;
Before you were born, I sanctified you”
Jerermiah 1:5
sounds to me like life begins BEFORE conception :~)
>> It is written:
“Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you;
Before you were born, I sanctified you”
Jerermiah 1:5
>> sounds to me like life begins BEFORE conception :~)
Agreed - which is why I stated that I believe life begins at conception. Generally speaking, however, the Bible cannot be cited as proof to a non-believer ... by definition, they don’t believe the teachings of the Bible.
H
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