Posted on 10/10/2007 11:43:35 PM PDT by Wiz
Turkey has denounced a vote by a US congressional committee recognising as genocide the 1915-17 mass killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks.
President Abdullah Gul said the decision was unacceptable and had no validity for Turkey, which has always denied any genocide took place.
The White House said it was very disappointed by the non-binding vote.
It fears Turkey could now limit co-operation in the war on terror and provision of military bases near Iraq.
The genocide bill passed in the House Foreign Affairs Committee by 27 votes to 21 - the first step towards holding a vote in the House of Representatives.
Divisions within the committee crossed party lines with eight Democrats voting against the measure and eight Republicans voting for it.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.bbc.co.uk ...
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It has been 90 years since this event took place. Why is it imperative that we chose this time of all times, to insult an ally in this manner?
We are three or four generations beyond the 1915-1917 events. If it wasn’t imperative that we condemn Turkey’s actions before his, why now?
This issue is a sore subject with me. My town is about 60% Armenian now. And by God, they want this to be the old country. They do not accept that it is the United States. Every year the local contingent makes new demands that we observe their historical events. Balderdash!
Why is it that the U.S. flag must be at half mast, and city offices in my town have to close due to events that took place half-way around the world nearly 100 years ago?
If I were in Congress, I'd avoid addressing this issue.
It fears Turkey could now limit co-operation in the war on terror and provision of military bases near Iraq.
I wonder if that's what they intimated to our leaders hoping to stop the vote.
Face your history Turkey.
You mean the feckless piece of dog feces of an ally that pulled that bullcrap over the 4th ID transiting to northern Iraq and helped set up Falujah as a hard point?
When push came to shove, they went islamist. Screw em till they’re drowning in their own blood and their homes are ashen heaps.
Why the idiots in our legislator picked now... you’re probably right, but I have less charity in my heart for the domestic allies of our enemy than I do for the foreign, so its all equal in the end.
Just in case you were curious. None of the above is aimed at you for your opinion, just venting my views.
It is not a matter of time. Nazism does not change in its ideology by time, nor Islamofascism. This is a matter of tradition and ideology dead or alive. The difference between Germany and Turkey is regret of their sin, and the sin of their ancestory. There is no such improvement without admiting the mistakes done. Nazi regime has never revived in Germany. They admitted their mistakes, they admitted it as their own sins. This is what is important for mistakes not to be repeated. Turkey did not just deny its mistake, but kept on holding its imperialism even afterward as seen in Cyprus. They have repeated their own barbaric manners. Their tradition of Islmofascism is still alive today. Even worse, books promoting Nazism in Turkey has been popular these days.
Turkey is not an ally. It will never be forgotten that Turkey has betrayed US for denying access to Iraq during Iraq War. They have not just denied access, but attepted to invade northern portion in the first few weeks of the Iraq War. It is uncertain how many of our troops have died as the result of this obstacle. According to Turkey’s official site, more than 90 percent of Turks that responded to the poll opposed the war. It was an action against the spread of democracy, and sympathy for Islam.
Once again, this is not a matter of time, but tradition and ideology. Germany continues to regret the act of Nazism since it is not a matter rather they have done it or not, but a matter of the shame of their ethnicity and nationality, and their responisibility to continue to regret Nazism throughout generations.
Nazism is still Nazism after 50 years. Genocide is still genocide after 50 years. It will remain on history books, and it is the responsibility of both Germans and Turks to continously regret generations after generations that they no longer promote genocide.
The Armenian Genocide was a Muslim Jihad on Christians and Jews
People do like to pretend that the world was invented just yesterday, dont they?
Islam has an established record as a murderously expansionist ideology of absolute cultural obliteration in its conquests that goes back to its very founding days.
The only interruptions have been when a bigger badass came along (like the mongol) and whipped the deliverance’s out of them for a few generations.
Islam does not peacefully coexist because Islam can not peacefully coexist. Peaceful coexistence with non islam is expressly forbidden by the ideology.
Islam is no different of an abhorrent degeneration of mishmashed philosophy/religion and governance than was Nazism. No part can be separated from the others (religion, civil governance, philosophy) by design. The very few attempts to do so have been short lived, always under assault from within and never more than an eggshell thin veneer.
Those are my thoughts and observations on the issue.
Is there a national holiday for the Jewish Holocaust? No. Why then should our flag be replaced with the Armenian flag for one day and all city offices close? Yep, this is the demand. It’s just one more group that thinks this nation must change to suit them, not them change to fit in here.
I don’t defend Turkey for doing anything wrong in 1915-17. If the facts bear out that they were the sole aggressors and there weren’t mutual hostilities, then Turkey should apologize. I don’t dispute that. However, we’re ninety years down the road since these events took place, and although we shouldn’t forget it, it’s idiotic to affront a nation that has held off against provocateurs going across the border onto it’s soil.
What would we do to Mexico if it were sending in armed insurgents to kill people by design? It’s bad enough that foreign nationals just show up here and abuse our system, but if there were an insurgency, I don’t think we’d sit by like Turkey has for the most part.
I’m just not buying into the official condemnation at this time. If it could wait for 90 years, it’s extremely il-advised to do it while our troops are on the ground in theater.
I don’t disagree with you at all on the activism crap. I’m just bent in the way that makes me hate the islamos more than the Armenians (and their brutal gangs) annoy me.
But, like I said at the end of that bit of ugly vent above, none of it’s aimed at you. So, I do hope I didn’t write sloppily enough to make it sound personal.
Obviously, this is a big subject for you, so will try to state opinion respectfully.
Opinion: what exactly went on during World War 1 between the Armenians and Turks is not very clear. Were the Turks trying to wipe out the Armenians? Were the Armenians trying to take advantage of the Ottomans' fighting in the world war to secede and attain independence? Were 1.5 million Armenians killed to put out the uprising/secessionist movement or to ethnically cleanse the region of Armenians? Until there are straightforward answers to these questions, whether there was or was not genocide by the Turks toward the Armenians is not settled.
Because of some massacre, which did nor did not happen 90 years ago, you want the US government to take a position that has no benefit other than possibly assuaging the feelings of some long dead people in order to anger one of the few allies we have in the Middle East?
Although Turkey is not always taking the position we want them to, they are generally the most reliably Muslim country in their support of the US. They are currently fighting their own battle against Muslim extremists.
Let me make it simple. If we piss off the Turks with this meaningless gesture, more Americans will eventually die in the current battle against Islamofacism. How many Americans should die in 2007 through 2010 so Armenians will feel better about something that happened, or didn't happen, 90 years ago?
Idoicy
The islamos are a thorn in my side right now as well. Believe me, there’s no love lost for folks who abuse every good motive we’ve extended to them over the years. Those in our own nation that walk around as if they own the place, anger me.
We try to be fair to everyone. We should be fair to the Armenians as well. I have to tell you though, I have absolutely no patience for any group that wants to turn this nation into something else, be it Islamofascists or Armenians.
We are the United States. Leave your (immigrant groups) baggage at the door.
Your comments weren’t specifically addressed to me, but I didn’t particularly care for the implication that I don’t care what took place in 1915-1917.
What took place was between two nations on the other side of the world. I am not convinced the bad deeds were a one way affair. I will admit to not having studied the events of that specific region as well as I would have liked. I’m just trying to remain somewhat objective about it.
I HAVE seen what the personalities are like in my home town. I have a hard time thinking a people this proud and forceful could have been abused at will, but I am open to learning more about the facts and accepting the reality of it.
Thanks for the additional comments. I appreciated them.
In general terms, you’ve expressed what my concerns are. I wish more folks could understand this.
I am not convinced what took place in 1915-1917 Turkey were the same as what took place in NAZI Germany. If I were, I’d be angry that it took us 90 years to address it.
I just have a very hard time thinking we ignored a mirror of NAZI Germany for 90 years. Something doesn’t pass the sniff test here IMO.
I’m still not ruling out that I could be wrong. I just need to study this issue and come to a better understanding of what actually did take place. My hunch is that there’s some fast an loose play with the dynamics of the 1915-1917 events.
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