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Democratic group accuses Giuliani of money laundering
Inside Bay Area ^ | October 2, 2007 | Steven Harmon

Posted on 10/04/2007 7:41:33 AM PDT by Kuksool

SACRAMENTO — A Democratic group on Monday filed formal complaints with the Federal Election Commission and the U.S. Department of Justice, accusing Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani of violating campaign laws, including money laundering. The complaints, made by Californians for Fair Election Reform, accuse Giuliani, through his friend Paul Singer, of establishing a Missouri "front" organization to

solicit illegal donations to support a ballot measure that would overturn California's winner-take-all system of allocating electoral votes.

Such a change would provide the Republican presidential nominee a chance to pick up roughly 20 electoral votes by dividing them up by congressional districts.

Singer, a hedge-fund billionaire and a policy adviser and regional finance director for Giuliani, revealed last week that he was the sole contributor to the committee, Take Initiative America, which donated $175,000 to the ballot measure.

Singer's disclosure that he'd contributed to the group came a day after top campaign officials for the GOP-backed electoral initiative — GOP attorney Tom Hiltachk, spokesman Kevin Eckery and fund-raiser Marty Wilson — resigned in protest after the lawyer in charge of Take Initiative America, Charles Hurth III, refused to disclose who contributed to the committee.

Although the initiative effort appears dead — in part because funding never materialized beyond Singer's contribution — the alleged violations are serious, said Chris Lehane, spokesman for the Democratic group.

"We want to get to the bottom of this," he said at a San Francisco news conference.

Singer's contribution, said James Harrison, the attorney who filed the complaint, raises questions about potential money laundering, illegal coordination between a candidate and an independent committee, and whether federal contribution limits were exceeded.

"As an agent of Giuliani's, Singer would be prohibited from soliciting or directing a contribution in excess of $2,300," said Harrison, who works with San Leandro-based Remcho, Johansen & Purcell, a firm specializing in election law. "We'd like the FEC to determine what Giuliani knew, when he knew it, what conversations he and Singer had about the contribution and how TIA was created. Whose idea was it? How did it come about?"

A spokesman for Giuliani denied any coordination with the initiative effort — the Campaign for Equal Representation — or the Take Initiative America committee.

"This is completely independent from our campaign," said Jarrod Agen, "and frankly it's not an initiative that serves our campaign's best interests."

Democrats also accused the Giuliani campaign of trying to conceal Singer's identity.

Under California law, the Campaign for Equal Representation was required to disclose its true source of funding. It identified Take Initiative America, which was created on Sept. 11, but Hurth, the lawyer behind the committee, refused to disclose where the $175,000 came from.

"We know that Singer intended his money to be used for the effort in California," Harrison said, "so, clearly, TIA was nothing more than a pass through.

"In California, that's considered money laundering."

Lehane said he's convinced Giuliani's campaign was behind the effort. He noted that Charles Bell, a partner with Hiltachk's firm, gave $1,300 to Giuliani's campaign days before the initiative was filed; Hurth had given $2,000 to Giuliani; his spokesman, Jonathan Wilcox, was a spokesman for former California GOP candidate Bill Simon; Simon himself is a co-chair for Giuliani's California campaign and a policy adviser.

"When you went through all these folks, virtually every road ultimately led back to Giuliani," Lehane said. "The one conclusion that one could safely draw is that it was the Giuliani campaign that was ultimately behind this."

Giuliani, in a statement last week, said he would have had no reason to be behind the initiative.

"As far as I'm concerned, you can leave it the way it is," he said. "In fact, in some ways you might consider, I think that this is a state I can win. That might actually favor some of the other Republican candidates who might have a more difficult time winning this state. I think this is a state that I've got a 50-50 chance of winning. So as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't mind leaving it that way."

Contact Steven Harmon at 916-441-2101 or sharmon@cctimes.com.


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: cagop; elections; electoralvote; giuliani; giulianitruthfile; hiltachk; paulsinger; rudygiuliani; stoprudy

1 posted on 10/04/2007 7:41:37 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: All

Since Rooty is blowing off Conservatives, he can fight this corruption scandal on his own.


2 posted on 10/04/2007 7:43:34 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: Kuksool

“A Democratic Group” aka “Hillary sourced”

This is to take heat off her with the Hsu debacle.


3 posted on 10/04/2007 7:44:02 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: Slapshot68
This is to take heat off her with the Hsu debacle.

Exactly. Classic Clinton War Room stuff.

4 posted on 10/04/2007 7:45:24 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: Kuksool

....................the alleged violations are serious, said Chris Lehane, spokesman for the Democratic group.............

Chris Lehane, Chris Lehane??

Oh I remember, Lehane used to be in der Sinkmeisters circle of friends, and worked with both J F’n Kerry and Weasley Clark.

So I’ll bet Hitlery is behind this smear!

Geez, ya try to clean out the entire nest of roachroaches, yet another queen appears!


5 posted on 10/04/2007 7:56:21 AM PDT by aShepard
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To: Kuksool
Rooty’s role in this should it prove to be true will be the finish of his campaign. The fact that it is classic Clinton war room tactics is far beyond the shadow of a doubt, ( one must wonder why the Democrats always clearly understand that politics is a war for the heart and soul of a nation but the Republican’s never do). This issue should be addressed at the federal level, it is not in the interest of this Nation to continue to permit a situation in which a candidate can win a in a few large states and thereby nullify the votes of the rest of the nation.
6 posted on 10/04/2007 7:57:10 AM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Kuksool
LOL, quite the opposite, he campaigned for conservatives nationwide.

It is conservatives who have blown him off and trashed him since he announced, because he is not a conservative ideologue.

But, most Republican candidates and officeholders are on their own when the DNC/MSM comes after them, we tend to throw them overboard the minute they are not shiny anymore, as evidenced by a good conservative saying “macaca”.

I have been around many conservative campaigns over the years, the candidates and staff KNOW their voters are often swayed by the MSM, and often joke that we need robots to run instead of human beings.

7 posted on 10/04/2007 7:57:32 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: roses of sharon

Nice try Rose,

Rudy has blown off conservatives by his stand on the issues.

But nice try anyway.


8 posted on 10/04/2007 8:01:20 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: TitansAFC; Spiff; Reagan Man; Condor51; Alberta's Child; George W. Bush; Liz; calcowgirl

Ping!

As the Rooty Supporters would say, “Are you just going to stand there and allow Hillary to smear the Patron Saint of 9-11? If so, then you are voting for Hillary!”


9 posted on 10/04/2007 8:09:09 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: SoConPubbie
His stand on issues has been known for decades, therefore conservatives have rightly blown him off, and will not consider him for the nomination.

He has asked conservatives for their vote anyway, stating that he agrees with us on other issues, explaining that he will not work against us, has no agenda against us, and has not been hostile to us, and has campaigned regularly for conservative candidates.

Now, if conservatives don’t believe him and don't want to vote for him, fine, but he has not run around the country talking trash against conservatism.

No sense in creating a big drama, when there is none.

He is simply a Republican who has never cared about social issues, and is not an ideologue, and is trying his hand at running on foreign policy, fiscal policy, ect, instead of social issues.

We shall see if Republican and conservative voters will go for it.

I think its a great primary race, and that we have a super variety to choose from, I’m exicted for the debates.

10 posted on 10/04/2007 8:17:44 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: aShepard

LOL, since RG called Hillary; “Bill’s leftovers”, she is ticked, what next?

Bill’s sloppy seconds?

Can’t wait for Hill to crack and blow her stack!


11 posted on 10/04/2007 8:21:32 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: aShepard

When Lehane is quoted, you can be assured that it’s coming from the Clinton campaign.


12 posted on 10/04/2007 8:47:21 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Kuksool; Spiff; Reagan Man; Condor51; Alberta's Child; George W. Bush; calcowgirl; Grampa Dave; ...

Paul Singer / Wiki

Singer is generally known as the original ‘vulture’[2] of the for-profit so-called ‘vulture funds’, which buy government bonds from poor countries and demand an exorbitant return on their loans.

In 1996, Singer bought up some of the debt of Peru for $11 million and got back $58 million.[2]

He purchased a bond from the Democratic Republic of Congo for about $10 million, sued in court for $400 million[3] and ended up with $127 million.[2]

Singer is also the Republican Party’s chief donor in New York, and has given a combined $1.7 million to the party since George W. Bush’s first presidential campaign.[4] Singer and Elliot employees make up the top contributor bloc to Rudolph Giuliani’s 2008 presidential run, having donated $168,400.[3] His estimated personal net worth is $700 million.

References (LINKS AT SITE)

1. Elliott Management Corporation Company Profile. Yahoo! Finance. Retrieved on 2007-07-18.

2. a b c “Vulture Fund” Company Seeks $40 Million Payment from Zambia on $4 Million Debt (2007-02-15). Retrieved on 2007-07-18.

3. a b Palast, Greg (2007-06-20). Randi Rhodes and Greg Palast Hunt Giuliani’s Favorite Vulture. Retrieved on 2007-07-18.

4. Jones, Meirion (2007-02-14). ‘Vulture funds’ threat to developing world. BBC Newsnight. Retrieved on 2007-07-18.

Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Singer";
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:REyEn4ojiJAJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
GOOGLED Paul_Singer+Paul+Singer&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


13 posted on 10/04/2007 9:29:00 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Liz
Singer has been over here meddling in California, too.
SINGER PAUL, ELLIOTT CAPITOL ADVISORS, INC.			
			
SCHWARZENEGGER - 2006, CALIFORNIANS FOR, ID#1261585	Governor	 $11,150.00 	4/24/2006
SCHWARZENEGGER - 2006, CALIFORNIANS FOR, ID#1261585	Governor	 $11,150.00 	4/24/2006
SCHWARZENEGGER - 2006, CALIFORNIANS FOR, ID#1261585	Governor	 $11,150.00 	2/22/2005
SCHWARZENEGGER'S CALIFORNIA RECOVERY TEAM, GOVERNOR, ID#1261406		 $25,000.00 	2/20/2004

14 posted on 10/04/2007 9:50:56 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: Kuksool; Liz

Rudy is, and has been, working behind the scenes to change all the rules to marginalize conservatives in California. I have no doubt that he (and/or his strategists) were behind this with full knowledge.

Additionally, California moved up the Primary from June to Feb 5, a move which benefits the big money candidates only (i.e. Rudy and only a few others).

The California GOP changed their rules on how delegates are distributed in the Primary election, a move that benefits the most liberal of candidates. Rudy is well aware of this move, having pointed out that it favors him in responding to the Press at last weeks’ endorsement by Pete Wilson.

Some in the California GOP also want to open the Primary to Independent voters, another move they think would benefit Rudy.

Hillary smear? Nah.... the Emperor is just demonstrating that he can’t win a race straight-up and has to change the rules to undermine the voters to achieve his life-long dream of power.


15 posted on 10/04/2007 9:58:41 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: roses of sharon; calcowgirl; indylindy; Kuksool; TitansAFC; Spiff; Reagan Man; Condor51; ...
Giuliani has asked conservatives for their vote (no he hasn't---he thumbed his nose at conservatives---more below)

Giuliani has campaigned regularly for conservative candidates (most of whom went down to defeat---as the Nov 2006 Repub debacle attests).

================================================

Giuliani thumbs his nose at conservatives.

Thursday, April 05, 2007
By CNN's Lauren Kornreich

Giuliani to social conservatives: "Take it or leave it"

Excerpt -- WASHINGTON (CNN)-- Rudy Giuliani's message to social conservatives: "If you don't like my views, don't vote for me."

The Republican reaffirmed his support for federal funding for some abortions, a position which puts him at odds with many conservatives. During a press conference at the State Capitol in Columbia, South Carolina, he said he didn't expect to win over 100 percent of the voters. "If that's real important to you, if that's the most important thing, I'm comfortable with the fact that you won't vote for me," the former mayor said.

Specifically, he said he would not change the Hyde amendment, which restricts federal funding for abortion......."

16 posted on 10/04/2007 10:01:33 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Liz

What I don’t get is people saying they will vote for him because of foreign policy or his fiscal record. He has NO foreign policy experience, other than holding hands after a terrible tragedy, but somehow this qualifies him to be CIC? Hardly! As to fiscal record, he’s all for big borrowing and grew government by 70%, leaving NYC with the same deficit it started with instead of building a reserve while residing over the biggest financial boom period in recent years.

Whether one is a social conservative or a fiscal conservative, Rudy’s record stinks!


17 posted on 10/04/2007 10:06:15 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: calcowgirl
Singer is generally known as the original ‘vulture’ of the for-profit so-called ‘vulture funds’, which buy government bonds from poor countries and demand an exorbitant return on their loans. In 1996, Singer bought up some of the debt of Peru for $11 million and got back $58 million. He purchased a bond from the Democratic Republic of Congo for about $10 million, sued in court for $400 million and ended up with $127 million. Singer is also the Republican Party’s chief donor in New York..... Singer and Elliot employees make up the top contributor bloc to Rudolph Giuliani’s 2008 presidential run, having donated $168,400.

Wonder what Singer's buying up in Kazashstan, South America and Asia? And what's Rudy's cut?

GIULIANI IS HOLDING A CAMPAIGN FUND-RAISER IN KAZAKHSTAN (that's in the Ukraine).

Kazakhstan is in the Strategic Energy Ellipse and is a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization with China and Russia. A focal point of influence between the West and the East.....(can you say oil and gas pipelines?)

=====================================

Voters, meet Global Rudy. Here's The Rudester's global connections (ones we know of):

(1) Giuliani Capital Advisors, LLC (AKA Giuliani Partners LLC),

(2) Giuliani Group,

(3) Giuliani-Kerik (re-named Giuliani Security and Safety, after the departure of the tainted ex-Police Commissioner),

(4) Giuliani-Van Essen,

(5) Bracewell & Giuliani LLP law firm (based in Texas with global interests),

(6) Bracewell & Giuliani has two offices in Kazakhstan (in the Ukraine), and,

(7) Giuliani Security & Safety, Asia

Bracewell & Giuliani's Almaty, Kazakhstan (in the Ukraine) (January closings totalled $1.625 Billion---they have two offices there). NOTE WELL: ROOTY IS HOLDING A CAMPAIGN FUND-RAISER IN KAZAKHSTAN.

Bracewell & Giuliani's Cintra Concesiones de Infraestructuras de Transporte, S.A., a Spanish transportation company (lobbied for Privatization of Toll Road in Texas)

Bracewell & Giuliani's Banco Santander Central Hispano, S.A. (SAN.MC, STD.N) (a bank that traded with a blacklisted Iranian Bank)

Bracewell & Giuliani's company tied to Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez, who has called President Bush "the devil." Bracewell & Giuliani lobbies on behalf of Texas-based Citgo Petroleum, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Venezuelan oil company controlled by Chávez.

=====================================

Rooty's campaign is engaged in a VERY dirty game played by remorseless people: religious cleansing of the party.

The "Everything For Us Nothing For You" types are squatting in the Repub party, plotting to ditch social conservatives, and take over the party.

Oh, speaking of "takeovers"----let's not forget what happened to ex-RNC chair Kenny Mehlman. He's got a lotta time on his hands after being ushered out the door after the 2006 election debacle.

Sweet Jesus, Lord, thank God Kenny LOVES shopping for matching satin sheet sets at Bed, Bath and Beyond. ROTFLMSO.

18 posted on 10/04/2007 10:09:20 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: calcowgirl
What I don’t get is people saying they will vote for him because of foreign policy........

Oh, that (snicker)----whenever that's mentioned you know it's the agit-prop of the neo-blanks.

Those dancin' fools..........they wiggle real nice to the insistent beat of the 911-WOT Samba.

Maybe they'll win the Dancing With The Stars mirrored ball? ROTFLMSO.

19 posted on 10/04/2007 10:21:29 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: calcowgirl

***What I don’t get is people saying they will vote for him because of foreign policy***

Perhaps being friends with the Austrian governor makes you an international relations expert.:)


20 posted on 10/04/2007 10:24:01 AM PDT by Kuksool
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To: Slapshot68
This is to take heat off her with the Hsu debacle.

Not that the Hsu debacle ever got any traction.

21 posted on 10/04/2007 10:31:18 AM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: Liz
Yes, I have watched all of our candidates stump speeches, and read their policy papers regularly, thanks!

I don’t get the feeling that any of them are running campaigns against conservatives, some say “please vote for me on the things we agree on, and not on issues we don’t agree on”, ie, RG, some like MR are running on how they have come around over years, (like many of us), on conservative social issues, still others are running on their conservative votes in Congress, ie DH, and FT is running on some of his votes in the Senate that we agree with, and some we do not.

Again, all are very different personalities, attitudes, weaknesses, they have different tones, and all are running on what they see as their strengths.

Anyway, SO FAR, I think our group is great, and can’t wait for them to begin to take each other on, how they will do it and how they respond will also be important to watch. Also, we have yet to hear their plans on certain policies.

22 posted on 10/04/2007 10:46:05 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Liz; indylindy; TommyDale; SierraWasp; NormsRevenge; ElkGroveDan

Paul Singer and Elliott International Capital Advisors, Inc. were among owners of GenesisIntermedia.com, Inc., according to SEC filings. The GenesisIntermedia story is a fascinating story with a web of international crooks and domestic cons. Here’s are just a couple tidbits. Investing in any company with Ramy El-Batrawi as CEO is really, really questionable judgement, LOL. If you dig into the story, you can even find the head of Native Nations as an ex-Milken DBL employee, lol.

http://www.rgm.com/articles/Deutsche3.html

The Street.Com
By Matthew Goldstein
September 11, 2003

A central figure in a $130 stock manipulation scheme that led to the collapse of two small brokerage firms pled guilty Thursday in a California federal court.

Kenneth D’Angelo pleaded guilty to charges of conspiracy to commit securities fraud and wire fraud in a bizarre plot that led to a separate civil lawsuit against Saudi Arabian arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi and Deutsche Bank.

The Securities and Exchange Commission, meanwhile, filed civil charges against D’Angelo. The agency wants to disgorge the profits he generated from the scheme, which stemmed from a plan to manipulate shares of GenesisIntermedia, a defunct Los Angeles marketing and advertising firm.

D’Angelo artificially pumped up the price of GenesisIntermedia’s shares in order to convince a series of brokerages to loan money against the stock. D’Angelo is alleged to have orchestrated the scheme, which collapsed in September 2001, in conjunction with the company’s chief executive officer Ramy El-Batrawi, who is not identified by name in either the SEC complaint nor in a criminal filing by federal prosecutors.

The SEC, in its complaint, said the two men also had an accomplice, an unidentified individual who is described as “Saudi Arabian national.’’ A source familiar with the investigation said the alleged accomplice is Khashoggi.

(snip)

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2006/lr19655.htm

Litigation Release No. 19655 / April 13, 2006

SEC v. Ramy El-Batrawi, et al., United States District Court for the Central District of California, Case No 2:-06-cv-02247-(MRP)(RZ)

SEC Files Fraud Charges Against Ramy El-Batrawi, Adnan Khashoggi, GenesisIntermedia, and Others Arising Out of $130 Million Stock Loan and Manipulation Scheme

The Securities and Exchange Commission today filed a complaint in the United States District Court for the Central District of California charging Ramy El-Batrawi, Adnan Khashoggi, and others with orchestrating a scheme to manipulate the stock price of GenesisIntermedia, Inc. (GENI), a now-defunct public company that was based in Van Nuys, California. The Commission alleges that the scheme, which occurred between September 1999 and September 2001, resulted in the misappropriation of more than $130 million, the collapse of several broker-dealers, and the largest bailout in the history of the Securities Investor Protection Corporation.

According to the complaint, Ramy El-Batrawi, GENI’s Chief Executive Officer at the time, and Adnan Khashoggi, with the assistance of Richard J. Evangelista, Wayne Breedon, and Kenneth P. D’Angelo (a stock loan broker previously charged by the SEC and criminal authorities), developed a manipulation scheme by which they could profit from lending GENI shares (rather than selling them). The complaint alleges that El-Batrawi and Khashoggi, through an offshore entity called Ultimate Holdings, loaned approximately 15 million shares of GENI stock to Evangelista’s employer at the time, Native Nations Securities, a New Jersey broker-dealer, and more than a dozen other broker-dealers in exchange for cash based upon the market value of the shares.

(snip)


23 posted on 10/04/2007 10:47:08 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: Kuksool
Here's the group's website.

Californians for Fair Election Reform

No info on who they are or where their money comes form.

24 posted on 10/04/2007 10:51:21 AM PDT by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Kuksool
Perhaps being friends with the Austrian governor makes you an international relations expert.:)

That's the ticket! ;-)

25 posted on 10/04/2007 10:55:46 AM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: roses of sharon; calcowgirl

Golly——you are SO “tolerant and compassionate.”

(Sniffle) even when a lowlife sucker like Giuliani is blanking the Repub Party base, trying to throw us out, you stand up and defend him (sob).

Sweet Jesus, Lord God Almighty, that’s AMAZING.

BTW, there’s a bridge you can buy cheap-—offered only to TRUSTING YOU. It’s in Brooklyn—and how do want to handle the down payment?


26 posted on 10/04/2007 11:03:40 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: calcowgirl
Rooty's top contributor, Paul Singer, and Elliott International Capital Advisors, Inc. were among owners of GenesisIntermedia.com, Inc., according to SEC filings. The GenesisIntermedia story is a fascinating story with a web of international crooks and domestic cons.

But, but, but........."security expert Rooty" can't keep up with all of his contributors-----because----when he was mayor, he was too busy lowering crime rates, cleaning up NY, getting people off welfare, and helping victims cope with 911.

27 posted on 10/04/2007 11:08:58 AM PDT by Liz (Rooty's not getting my guns or the name of my hairdresser.)
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To: Kuksool

Where OH where are the orgs that should be going after Billary Clinton on her fundraising. Must freerepublic stand alone???

Hello Judicial Watch are you listening????


28 posted on 10/04/2007 11:15:56 AM PDT by Fred ("What is it that makes liberals think the best way to help someone is to punish them" FDT)
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To: Kuksool

“Democratic group accuses Giuliani of money laundering”

Ruck Fudy.


29 posted on 10/04/2007 11:32:16 AM PDT by Grunthor (I'd be Catholic but I don't speak latin and don't wanna learn just to go to church.)
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To: Kuksool

Ah, the other Hsu drops? /Clintonista name-dropping whisper


30 posted on 10/04/2007 11:36:15 AM PDT by MortMan (Have a pheasant plucking day!)
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To: roses of sharon

“It is conservatives who have blown him off and trashed him since he announced, because he is...”

pro-abortion (and wants my tax dollars to pay for it), pro gay “marriage” anti-gun and soft on illegals.


31 posted on 10/04/2007 11:36:45 AM PDT by Grunthor (I'd be Catholic but I don't speak latin and don't wanna learn just to go to church.)
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To: Grunthor

Precisely! As I said most conservatives think he will take away their guns, promote gay marriage in our churches, will work for more abortions, and agrees with illegal immigration.

We shall see how he answers these charges from FT or some other candidate.


32 posted on 10/04/2007 12:17:35 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: roses of sharon

“We shall see how he answers these charges from FT or some other candidate.”

These aren’t charges from some other candidate, this is the mans’ history and his beliefs.


33 posted on 10/04/2007 12:18:48 PM PDT by Grunthor (I'd be Catholic but I don't speak latin and don't wanna learn just to go to church.)
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To: Grunthor

And FT, Hunter, or any candidates need to call him out in the debates, then primary voters will be educated his “plans”.


34 posted on 10/04/2007 12:23:09 PM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: roses of sharon

“And FT, Hunter, or any candidates need to call him out in the debates, then primary voters will be educated his “plans”.”

Or the voters can simply read and study each candidate.

But I do think it is a good idea for the other candidates to call him out on his liberalism.


35 posted on 10/04/2007 1:53:35 PM PDT by Grunthor (I'd be Catholic but I don't speak latin and don't wanna learn just to go to church.)
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