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Burning Saltwater: Kanzius and Penn State Chemist Rostum Roy
Desalination Research And Development ^
| 9/14.07
| Charles Kilmer
Posted on 09/14/2007 10:32:35 AM PDT by ckilmer
Posted September 14th, 2007 by
Categories: Water Desalination Research and Development
Back in June I posted extensively about John Kanzius RF machine that cracked hydrogen out of saltwater. His last comments at the time were that he believed that his device had achieved unityand therefor he would go silent. (That is, unlike electrolysis which is about 72% efficientKanzius believed his machine was +100meaning he believed his machine produced more energy than it consumed. Needless to say, everyone around the net has said this is impossible.)
There have been a flurry of new articles this week on John Kanzius RF device for burning saltwater. As well, heres a new video. He brought his device up to the labs of Penn State Materials Researcher Rustum Roy. According to the ScrippsNews:
Rustum Roy, a Penn State University chemist, held a demonstration last week at the universitys Materials Research Laboratory in State College, to confirm what hed witnessed weeks before in an Erie lab.
Its true, it works, Roy said. Everyone told me, Rustum, dont be fooled. He put electrodes in there.
But there are no electrodes and no gimmicks, he said.
Roy said the salt water isnt burning per se, despite appearances. The radio frequency actually weakens bonds holding together the constituents of salt water sodium chloride, hydrogen and oxygen and releases the hydrogen, which, once ignited, burns continuously when exposed to the RF energy field. Kanzius said an independent source measured the flames temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output.
According to another article:
Apparently, Kanziuss inventionwhich uses just 200 watts of directed radio waves, not quite enough electricity to light three 75-watt light bulbsbreaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen.
The ScrippsNews continues:
As such, Roy, a founding member of the Materials Research Laboratory and expert in water structure, said Kanzius discovery represents the most remarkable in water science in 100 years.
But researching its potential will take time and money, he said. One immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF generator uses vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen.
Roy said hes scheduled to meet Monday with U.S. Department of Energy and Department of Defense officials in Washington to discuss the discovery and seek research funding.
Kanzius said he powered a Stirling, or hot air, engine with salt water. But whether the system can power a car or be used as an efficient fuel will depend on research results.
We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads, Roy said. The potential is huge.
In addition I would suggest that the device be tested with high concentrations of salt in the water just like you would find after much fresh water had been stripped out by RO. Theres evidence to suggest that while the RF destabilizes the H20 the Na acts as a heat sink (like any metal in a microwave oven) and superheatedcracks the H2 out of the moleculein a way similiar to carbon steam reformation. So maybe water with high concentrations of Na would allow the same amount of hydrogen cracking at lower energy levels. At the very least the RO concentrate might be turned into a new source for hydrogen.
We will get our ideas together and check this out and see where it leads, Roy said. The potential is huge.
TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: desalination; energy; johnkanzius; kanzius; notthiscrapagain; roy; saltwater; scam
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1
posted on
09/14/2007 10:32:37 AM PDT
by
ckilmer
To: ckilmer
independent source measured the flames temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output. ...but still less than 200W.
2
posted on
09/14/2007 10:36:41 AM PDT
by
ctdonath2
(The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
To: ckilmer
3
posted on
09/14/2007 10:39:48 AM PDT
by
JamesP81
To: ckilmer
"One immediate question is energy efficiency: The energy the RF generator uses vs. the energy output from burning hydrogen."
Are they putting Science degrees in Kracker Jack boxes these days? A press release w/o this basic information? Gimee a break.
4
posted on
09/14/2007 10:40:04 AM PDT
by
Paladin2
(Islam is the religion of violins, NOT peas.)
To: ctdonath2
independent source measured the flames temperature, which exceeds 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit, reflecting an enormous energy output.
...but still less than 200W.
//////////////////
that would be really helpful if you could do a watts to degrees computation for energy input output....so for example...how low would Watts have to be in order to be equivalent to 3000 degrees.
5
posted on
09/14/2007 10:40:07 AM PDT
by
ckilmer
To: ckilmer
Apparently, Kanziuss inventionwhich uses just 200 watts of directed radio waves, not quite enough electricity to light three 75-watt light bulbsbreaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen. No mention of how much hydrogen is separated.
A 200 watt light bulb creates enormous heat. How much heat is the burning hydrogen creating?
Any amatuer scientist knows that the crux is energy in vs. energy out. Energy out wouldn't be so hard to determine, so why not mention it? No sane person would announce this to the world without measuring energy out first.
6
posted on
09/14/2007 10:40:15 AM PDT
by
SampleMan
(Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
To: Paladin2
"A press release w/o this basic information?"
Exactly. Why is this even news without this?
7
posted on
09/14/2007 10:42:43 AM PDT
by
EEDUDE
To: SampleMan
A 200 watt light bulb creates enormous heat.
Would appear we have a new form of light bulb. We can through away our candles now.
8
posted on
09/14/2007 10:42:55 AM PDT
by
PeterPrinciple
( Seeking the truth here folks.)
To: ckilmer
9
posted on
09/14/2007 10:45:00 AM PDT
by
thackney
(life is fragile, handle with prayer)
To: SampleMan
Any amatuer scientist knows that the crux is energy in vs. energy out. Energy out wouldn’t be so hard to determine, so why not mention it? No sane person would announce this to the world without measuring energy out first.
/////////////////
the process doesn’t need to achieve parity for it to be ground breaking
there is evidence to suggest that the RF is creating a synthetic catalyst for platinum. If so they could replace very expensive platinum for its atomic RF which could be created cheaply by the radio wave machine—and used in the industrial production of hydrogen—either in carbon steam reformation or hydrogen fuel cells for cars.
10
posted on
09/14/2007 10:45:57 AM PDT
by
ckilmer
To: SampleMan
11
posted on
09/14/2007 10:46:23 AM PDT
by
johnny7
("But that one on the far left... he had crazy eyes")
To: PeterPrinciple
You grab hold of one when it’s been on for a while.
12
posted on
09/14/2007 10:48:31 AM PDT
by
ctdonath2
(The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
To: ckilmer
how low would Watts have to be in order to be equivalent to 3000 degrees. It doesn't take very much power (watts) to heat a small volume to 3000 degrees. Consider a incandescent penlight powered by a single AAA battery. The bulb might be well under 1 watt, but the filament gets to around 4000-5000°F.
I'm interested in total power coming from the burning hydrogen. So far to me it just looks like a fancy electrolysis set up with the released hydrogen burning immediately.
13
posted on
09/14/2007 10:49:20 AM PDT
by
KarlInOhio
(May the heirs of Charles Martel and Jan Sobieski rise up again to defend Europe.)
To: ckilmer
the process doesnt need to achieve parity for it to be ground breaking True. All my points still stand.
14
posted on
09/14/2007 10:49:53 AM PDT
by
SampleMan
(Islamic tolerance is practiced by killing you last.)
To: ckilmer
I wonder if “Big Hydrogen” will want to suck up all the prime Anwar Seawater, leaving the Caribou to die slow painful deaths.
15
posted on
09/14/2007 10:50:11 AM PDT
by
NavVet
(O)
To: ctdonath2
Are we sure sodium isn’t being stripped from its cloride ion causing the sodium to burn in solution?
To: ckilmer
No mention of any byproducts, which seems odd. Where does the sodium chloride go (assuming the H and O that burn come from the water)?
Not enough info to comment on its suitability as an energy source, but it would make a neat welding torch for shipboard use...
17
posted on
09/14/2007 10:52:17 AM PDT
by
chrisser
To: ckilmer
John Kanzius’s sister, Sophie goes to my church. This man is a true genius/innovator in the field of cancer research. His other works involving the use of radio waves for treating some forms of cancer were featured in Reader’s Digest last year. Unfortunately, Mr. Kanzius has had a recurrence of a type of cancer that his inventions may not cure, and he may not live to see the fruits of his labor.
To: ckilmer
" The potential is huge. "There's absolutely nothing to this rubbish. They're doing the equivalent of taking a torch and heating some water. Same thing happens there. This just uses a light beam equivalent of a torch. It's incredibly stupid. You could torch a car and do the sme thing. You'll get all that energy back when the char cools. In the meantime, there'll be lots of bond breaking and reforming.
19
posted on
09/14/2007 10:56:05 AM PDT
by
spunkets
("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
To: ckilmer; All
If the source power was solar would it matter if the energy derived was less than the power put in?....I don’t think we would run out of sun for about 5 billion years. The question is, could we ramp up a big enough project to make the solar transfer to salt solution to hydrogen to make it feasible commercially?
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