Getting Vietnam Right

The American Spectator ^ | Aug. 30, 2007 | Mark Moyar

[Interesting Times]

In the past week, the criticisms swirling around the President's VFW speech have provided much less insight into the President or the speech than into the critics. Rather than address the speech's central issue -- the 1975 debate over the ramifications of abandoning Vietnam -- these individuals have tried to push their own views on Iraq by mentioning other aspects of Vietnam. Emblematic of the attackers was Senator John Kerry, who said that the President's comparison of Vietnam with Iraq was "irresponsible" and "ignorant of the realities of both of those wars." Kerry explained that in Iraq, as in Vietnam, "more American soldiers are being sent to fight and die in a civil war we can't stop and an insurgency we can't bomb into submission." Senator Ted Kennedy, another opponent of both wars, backed this interpretation with the comment that the United States lost the Vietnam War because the South Vietnamese government "lacked sufficient legitimacy with its people."

Kerry and Kennedy missed key facts about Vietnam, some of them long obvious, others newly emerged from historical studies. The New York Times and NBC News and CNN and so on missed them, too, because they chose to rely on outdated historians or their own prejudices. The insurgency in Vietnam was dead by 1971, thanks to South Vietnam's armed forces, America's forces, and a South Vietnamese civilian population that overwhelmingly viewed the South Vietnamese government as legitimate. During 1972, after all American combat units had departed, South Vietnamese forces defeated a massive North Vietnamese invasion with the help of American air power. The so-called Christmas bombing of 1972 bombed North Vietnam into submission, resulting in a peace treaty. Had the antiwar Congress not slashed aid to South Vietnam and prohibited the use of American aircraft over Vietnamese skies...

[Interesting Times]

Mark Moyar, author of the Vietnam War history "Triumph Forsaken," has provided much of the scholarship behind the Bush Administration's new initiative to confront the mythical Vietnam of the Left, in which heroic antiwar protestors brought peace to Southeast Asia instead of unimaginable carnage.

[Interesting Times]

I’m back.

[angkor]

I don't think this is too far off-topic:

Click either image above.

"There were reeducation camps, and they weren't pretty and, you know, nobody likes that kind of outcome, but on the other hand I've met a lot of people today who were in those education camps, who are thriving in the Vietnam of today."
---- John Kerry, July 19, 2007, C-SPAN

Among his many, many flawed perceptions, John Kerry - known in the Vietnamese-American newspapers as "phan boi" (traitor) - must be completely oblivious of the many tens of thousands who died, were crippled by beatings, or became chronically ill in "reeducation camp."

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* Winner, Long Nguyen, Best Actor - Newport Beach Film Festival
* Special Jury Prize - Newport Beach Film Festival
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* Grand Jury Prize - San Diego Asian Film Festival
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[Reagan Man]

Remove me from any and all of your ping lists.

Thanks

[Broker]

correct spelling: Viet Nam

[ConorMacNessa]

The traitor John Kerry ought to shut his mouth - he was instrumental in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in Vietnam.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[Interesting Times]

Remove me from any and all of your ping lists.

Gladly.

[Interesting Times]

correct spelling: Viet Nam

I think I'm going to have to go with Dr. Moyar's spelling over yours. Were you able to extract anything else from his article?

[Interesting Times]

More recent articles on the president's new Vietnam truth initiative can be found here.

[Reagan Man]

So this is the way you make your return to FR. Just remember, I never requested at any time to be placed on your ping list(s) and never would.

[ClaireSolt]

The President may have had this author to the White House for a chat, as he did Mark Steyn and others.

[colorcountry]

Must see. Thanks for the links.

[Interesting Times]

So this is the way you make your return to FR. Just remember, I never requested at any time to be placed on your ping list(s) and never would.

By all means, continue whining. I can use the pings.

[Reagan Man]

Whatever. I’ll be seeing you around FR.

Just remember, keep me off your ping lists.

[Interesting Times]

The President may have had this author to the White House for a chat, as he did Mark Steyn and others.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. It's great to see this talented young historian cutting through decades of myth and disinformation.

[Interesting Times]

Ping.

[R. Scott]

The usual cast of despicable characters. Kerry, Kennedy ...

[Interesting Times]

I don't think this is too far off-topic:

Not off-topic at all. Thanks...

[onedoug]

You’re right, but the Vietnam anglicization makes it easier to discuss people and things Vietnamese.

[KantianBurke]

“The insurgency in Vietnam was dead by 1971, thanks to South Vietnam’s armed forces, America’s forces, and a South Vietnamese civilian population that overwhelmingly viewed the South Vietnamese government as legitimate.”

Incorrect. The VC were largely defunct by 71 due to their over reach and repulse by American forces during the Tet offensive and subsequent attacks. For the author of this piece to claim that South Vietnamese civilians were suddenly all for their government and thus played a role in the impotence of the VC is wrong.

[Interesting Times]

Incorrect. The VC were largely defunct by 71 due to their over reach and repulse by American forces during the Tet offensive and subsequent attacks. For the author of this piece to claim that South Vietnamese civilians were suddenly all for their government and thus played a role in the impotence of the VC is wrong.

The premise of the massive '68 Tet uprising by the VC in all major cities of the South was that the people would join them against the government. That didn't happen, which allowed U.S. and S.V. forces to decimate them.

If Dr. Moyar says S.V. civilian support of the government was an important factor, you can take it to the bank. His research is meticulous.

[Syncro]

I’m back.

You were gone?

JK

Thanks for the ping, stick around ok?

[KantianBurke]

Granted the Southern population didn’t cross over to the VC / NVA side. However, according to Ronald Spector’s “After Tet” as well as James Arnold’s “The Tet Offensive,” confidence and support in the govt collapsed as they witnessed their govt being unable to defend them without American help.

[calex59]

correct spelling: Viet Nam

You can always tell the people who want to control others. Somewhere inside you is a communist trying to get out.

Do you really think the majority of us on FR give a rat's butt whether Vietnam or Viet Nam is the correct spelling? We know what country he is talking about and that is what matters. I'll bet you are one of the myriad posting police also. Get a life.

[Interesting Times]

And yet the S.V. Army held up very well against the massive invasion of 1972, by which time we were down to a few thousand ground troops in country. U.S. air power made a big difference, of course.

[Interesting Times]

You were gone?

I took an extended break after the virulent FR purges this spring.

[KantianBurke]

The focus was on the support from the civilian populace, not the ARVN and its fighting abilities.

FR Spring purge?

[Interesting Times]

The focus was on the support from the civilian populace, not the ARVN and its fighting abilities.

Fair enough, although I think the two were probably intertwined.

FR Spring purge?

If you missed it, consider yourself lucky...

[Designer]

"Remove me from any and all of your ping lists." - Reagan Man

I think this means I should be added to your ping list. If you please. Thanks.

[Designer]

"..cutting through decades of myth and disinformation."

Bump

[bray]

Thanks for the ping

Pray for W and Our Troops

[Interesting Times]

I think this means I should be added to your ping list. If you please. Thanks.

Done, and welcome.

[pabianice]

[potlatch]

Thank you for the ping I.T.!

[oyez]

Kerry, Kennedy must have had a drunken pity party the day the Berlin Wall came down and latter had fits of depression while the USSR folded.

[oyez]

Kerry, Kennedy must have had a drunken pity party the day the Berlin Wall came down and latter had fits of depression while the USSR folded.

[oyez]

Kerry, Kennedy must have had a drunken pity party the day the Berlin Wall came down and latter had fits of depression while the USSR folded.

[editor-surveyor]

Thanks for the ping!

[MinuteGal]

Smooches.....

Leni

[Rembrandt]

“...because Vietnam is now a nice capitalist country.”

It is ridiculous to believe that Vietnam is now a nice capitalist country. If it’s capitalist, why does a person require two visa’s, one to enter the country one wishes to visit and one to be allowed to leave Vietnam?

Two percent of the population of Vietnam are well off; those two percent also comprise the Communist Party. The remaining 98% want out of Vietnam right now. They are sick of having all of their earnings and belongings sucked out of them for the benefit of the Party members. Those 98% CAN NOT leave - that is not capitalism!!!

[Rembrandt]

“correct spelling: Viet Nam”

You are correct. The people of Viet Nam are the Viet people and Nam means South, hence Viet Nam. The northern area is properly referred to as Bac Viet, North Viet (people).

[Rembrandt]

“His research is meticulous.”

His use of the term “Vietnam” speaks to the contrary.

[BIGLOOK]

Aloha GL!

“...because Vietnam is now a nice capitalist country.”

It's become a hybrid economy but the Lao Dong is the only party in town......just as it was in the 1954 elections in Bac Viet.

Even the Cong San know things change but not their control over political thought and its challenges to their rule.

[R. Scott]

Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

[Broker]

Vietnam is a relatively new verb coined by the SDS in April 1968 and central to their “evil America” mission statement thereafter a Democrat platform item.

[Molly Pitcher]

Welcome back, then, IT.

[Molly Pitcher]

I was on a Big 10 campus in the late '60s and early 70s, and witnessed the whole mess of disgusting demonstrations, and the weak administration responses.

Then my husband and I were overseas, while he served in the Army, S. Korea.

We returned stateside in time to be in the audience at Tulane Un. when President Ford announced our presence in S. Vietnam was over..April '75.

Gosh my husband and I were the only people in the audience who didn't applaud that line.

Rather, we were disgusted & ashamed.

I'd already considered the idea that the war and its aftermath would have longterm consequences. That there was no escape, and that what I'd witnessed would reverberate thru decades to come.

I also vowed that likely I'd have a small role in setting the record straight. That has been true....my vote and work in the 04 election, for example.

IT, thanks for your dedication in this area, also.

This is my generation's burden, and we must see it thru & make amends.

[Interesting Times]

Welcome back, then, IT.

Thanks, Molly.

[Eva]

It’s great to see you back! There must have been quite a few regular Freepers that were banned because Free Republic has been pretty boring this summer.

Great article, by the way.