Posted on 07/22/2007 2:47:48 AM PDT by parousia
The Judiciary Committee hearing chaired by California Democrat Dianne Feinstein took exception to how the case was handled. Ramos and Compean fired at him 15 times, hitting him once before he got away. Compean gathered up the shell casings, and the two agents filed a false report leaving out the shooting. Border agents discharge their weapons all the time - 144 agents have done it throughout the past two years - without being prosecuted. What's impermissible is to shoot someone who represents no threat. It turned out Aldrete-Davila's van contained roughly 750 pounds of marijuana... but doesn't justify shooting him on sight. A West Texas jury heard the agents' defense - including that they thought Aldrete-Davila was armed - and rejected it. The injustice is in the sentencing. The prosecutor offered Ramos and Compean plea bargains for 18-24 months in jail, which seems appropriate. When they rejected the pleas, they went to trial on 12 counts, including discharging a weapon in the course of a violent crime. Unbeknownst to the jury, that firearms charge carries a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence and is responsible for Ramos and Compean getting 11 and 12 years, respectively. The statute in question was meant to be a way to deter criminals from carrying weapons, and, as Feinstein and Cornyn write, ''should be used as an enhancing charge against drug dealers and individuals who commit violent crimes.'' Except in extraordinary cases, applying it to law-enforcement officers who carry their weapons as a matter of course is perverse. Once they brought the charge and the jury found the agents guilty of it, the judge was locked into sending them to prison for more than a decade... Only an act of executive clemency can counterbalance the excesses of the criminal-justice system.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
One reviewer of this article said he Mother of Osvaldo Aldreto-Davila has friendship with a high ranking Bush Cabinet member, possibly in homeland sec. That is why the border agents are kept in prison. The Drug smuggler has freedon to roam the USA whenever he wants. If true, what is our government doing making 'deals" with Mexican drug smugglers? The obvious travesty here is the excessive punishment by the judge, and Johnny Suttons protesteth too much.
I hope President Bush will grant total pardon to these two border agents, and I appreciate Lowery’s non-hysterical reasons why.
Sure it does.
“I hope President Bush will grant total pardon to these two border agents, and I appreciate Lowery’s non-hysterical reasons why.”
You’ve got to be kidding. Bush was just on TV the other day, after the Feinstein hearings on this subject, and was talking about how Johnny Sutton was his good friend, and making it very obvious that he has no intention of pardoning the two border agents. This is where Bush’s notorious stubborness will come into play. Those two poor saps will serve their complete sentences if Bush has his druthers. Dream on if you think he will pardon them.
“...Sutton protests too much.”
Watched Sutton in interview with Glen Beck yesterday. What an eye=batting prevaricator. I wouldn’t believe a word he says.
Probably includes him, too ~ love to see that ~ a prosecutor so stupid he puts himself on trial.
For sure, I “will dream on” that Bush will pardon the two agents. I listened to Sutton on Laura Ingraham last week, and she finally dragged it out of him that the sentences were “harsh”. That being the same reasoning Bush used in his Libby decision, I don’t think Bush will let his personal friendship with Sutton keep him from doing the right thing.
To receive treatment for his cracked pelvis and severed urethra and to meet with investigators.
"...and acquaintences have revealed a prvious drug delivery in TX."
Which "acquaintances" are those"
"Following the immunity given him by our government, he delivered another large load of drugs.
According to whom?
"One reviewer of this article said he Mother of Osvaldo Aldreto-Davila has friendship with a high ranking Bush Cabinet member, possibly in homeland sec."
Which "reviewer" was that?
"That is why the border agents are kept in prison."
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with being convicted in a court of law by 12 impartial jurors.
"The Drug smuggler has freedon to roam the USA whenever he wants."
Baloney. As mentioned above he was given a pass to receive medical treatment, be interviewed and attend the trial. It's over.
"If true, what is our government doing making 'deals" with Mexican drug smugglers?"
Because of Ramos and Compeans sloppy work, the perp was able to escape back to Mexico. They didn't know who he was or where he lived so any chance of building a case was gone. The problem is there was this messy loose end of Ramos and Compean's illegally shooting a fleeing suspect in the back. Your absolution of any wrong doing of these BPA's because the suspect was mexican reminds me of the ATF's and FBI's responses to Ruby Ridge and Waco (He was a gun runner, who cares?! They were cult members, who cares?!).
The law regarding how and when LEO's can discharge their weapons has to be enforced evenly across the board no matter who the victim is or none of us are safe.
"The obvious travesty here is the excessive punishment by the judge..."
That's called a chicken coming home to roost.
One small problem, Ramos and Compean didn't know what as in the van before they shot AVD, which wasn't searched until it was over. Another problem, the van, which was full size and light grey, didn't match the original description of the suspect van leaving the border area, given by Compean, which he reported was a dark blue mini-van.
For all Ramos and Compean knew, before they shot him in the back as he ran away, he could have been an American citizen or a Mexican wih legal papers, fleeing because his van was loaded with contraband Madonna statues or because he had an outstanding traffic ticket.
The bottom line is not only did this suspect not match, even closely, the original description of the van observed loading something at the border, they knew nothing of the driver or what the van contained.
They just shot him because they were mad he got away.
Now if this is the kind of critieria you think is satisfactory for an LEO to pull his gun and start blazing away, yougot a right to your opinion.
Me, I think it is a very dangerous precedent to set to allow R&C to be cleared simply because the perp turned out later to be an illegal drug mule. As I said before, the excuses given by R&C supporters remind me of the governments excuses over Ruby Ridge and Waco.
I do believe the sentences were too long and they should be commuted at this point, they've served enough time and suffered enough. But for R&C supporters to continue at this late date to go around with their stupid ass conspiracy theories and act as if the did nothing wrong, well, that's just plain scary.
It's this kind of thinking that allows a police state to germinate and flourish.
The Smuggler’s momma said he always went armed.
ALWAYS.
None of the ELEVEN witnesses to the shooting thought he was hit at the time.
Nobody was able to match the bullet to the Officers’ guns.
He could easily have been shot for losing the 750 lbs of pot, by his cohorts.
The ENTIRE prosecutorial/judicial group are W cronies—doing his bidding to assure Mexico we aren’t going to be tough on their major industry and source of income. This fiasco also has the added benefit of DEMORALIZING the BP.
Whatta twofer.
"The Smuggler’s momma said he always went armed. ALWAYS."
A newspaper reported this comment, said it came from a source they refused to identify. Never said it was his mother. And we know, newspapers ALWAYS report the truth and never make anything up to sell a few papers.
"None of the ELEVEN witnesses to the shooting thought he was hit at the time."
As I said, you didn't ever read the trial transcripts, did you? I did. Front to back. There were only three witnesses to the shooting and both Ramos and Compean stated they saw OVD drop to the ground after Ramos shot him.
"Nobody was able to match the bullet to the Officers’ guns."
The full ballistics report was made available to the defense after which Ramos and his attorney stipulated in court to the fact the bullet the hit OVD came from Ramos's gun and that he shot him. Here you have the shooter himself agreeing and admitting he shot and hit the fleeing suspect and "supporters" continue to contradict THE VERY GUY YOU SAY IS TELLING THE TRUTH (and everyone else is lying). Is Ramos lying?
"He could easily have been shot for losing the 750 lbs of pot, by his cohorts."
I guess that's why OVD was trying so hard to get back to Mexico...so the real drug dealers could shoot him.
"The ENTIRE prosecutorial/judicial group are W cronies—doing his bidding to assure Mexico we aren’t going to be tough on their major industry and source of income."
There was a violent border war brewing for a year or two with random shootings and both the US and Mexico agreed to stop it they needed to investigate and prosecute any incidents to the fullest degree. You're tinfoil conspiracy theories about Bush doing the bidding of the Mexican government make you look like an idiot. No offense.
"This fiasco also has the added benefit of DEMORALIZING the BP."
What's been demoralizing is the long sentences. Reputable and decorated BPA have gone on the record as stating this incident nor are R&C the ones to be held up as heroes. Even R&C's own fellow agents at that station wouldn't support them in court. Hell, they didn't even support them at the scene. If anyone is to blame for demoralizing the BP it is R&C themselves. They were the ones who engaged in a bad shoot, tried to cover it up and then lied about it.
No, R&C are heroes. Who cares that they shot an unarmed man in the back under the color of authority...he was only a mexican drug mule, right?
BTTT
The fault lies with Congress for tying a judges hand in such a manner. Fortunately, the president can correct this injustice by commuting the sentence.
There's no doubt Ramos and Compean deserve some jail time, but 10 years is really excessive. If were the president, I'd commute it to 18 months.
I listened to that program, and I have to say, I wasn't impressed with Ingraham's performance. Sutton handled himself quite well, IMHO.
She kept bringing up all kinds of irrelevent facts, like the smuggler bringing in a second load after he was given immunity, as if that has anything to do with what Ramos and Compean did.
The fact that the sentences are excessive is not Sutton's fault; it's Congress's fault for imposing the 10 year mandatory minimum. I suppose he could have chosen not to bring the firearms charge in light of the mandatory minimum, but it would be hard to prosecute them covering up a shooting without charging them for the shooting itself. That opens the door for the defense to argue that there was "no underlying crime." And they would have a point. Unless they did something wrong when they discharged their firearms, why would it matter that they clean up their shell casings?
However, I do have to say I question the US Attorney's choice of priorities when they devote so many resources to this case, and when they go an give immunity to a drug smuggler in order to secure a conviction.
No doubt, R&C are guilty, but there are many other crimes being committed every day that are far worse than what they did. It does seem rather screwed up to see a government that can't secure a border instead devoting so much to putting away a couple border patrol agents who got a little overzealous.
The US and Mexico were concerned about innocents getting caught in the cross fire and wild shooting and got together and decided the only way this will stop is if they aggressively go after the shooters (notice no one is concerned that R&C's misses (14?) could have hit people on the other side and vice versa nor that the border shootings have mostly stopped).
It became a priority and Sutton got the marching orders...prosecute suspects. I don't particularly like the guy but he was doing the job given him by the justice dept. and homeland security.
Unfortunately, some are using this incident to grind the issue of illegals and border security. I talk until I'm blue in the face and they won't listen to any reason or logic.
When I bring up Waco or Ruby Ridge, the room goes silent. When someone does have the temerity to speak up they say "that was different". I ask how. They say "OVD was an illegal". I mention R&C didn't know that when they shot him. They say "OVD was a drug mule". I say R&C didn't know that either.
Then complete silence and off to another thread to regurgitate the same misinformation and convoluted logic. The reason? For them it's not about the law or justice, it's all about illegals and any old lie will do.
I question that as a priority. You're right it's not Sutton who determined that; it was Chertoff. But given the magnitude of illegal border crossings, and the fact that the BP is forced to play "catch and release" for lack of resources, I don't think it was the right priority.
Fair enough but not your call.
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