Why So Much Media Focus on Mitt Romney's Mormon Faith?

Fox News ^ | 2/19/07 | Sevenbak

[Theo]

I appreciate your defense of the truth of the gospel, friend. The typical Mormon is a fine citizen, but their faith is based on the demonically inspired visions of Joseph Smith, and therefore misguided.

Horses in America before Columbus? Steel weapons? Indians decendents of the Israelites? So many untruths in their "scriptures," you'd think some of them would question the rest of it.

[colorcountry]

Thanks mod.

[Logophile]

Don't expect a response out of faux Melchizedek here on that one. . . . . Peyote ravings, (Joseph Smith), usually fail in the light of day.

Sorry, but I mistook your reference Melchizedek to be a jest of some sort; I did not realize you expected a response.

You wrote:

They think they can attain the same rank as Christ: Man becomes God.

I said that you were misinformed because Latter-day Saints most definitely do not believe that they will ever attain the same rank as Christ. Nor do we believe that man can become God. Doctrine and Covenants 76 expresses it well:

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God— (D & C 76:58; emphasis added)

Note that men may be called "gods" (lowercase g), meaning the sons of God (uppercase G). This verse alludes to John 10, where Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6:

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (John 10:34–36; emphasis added)

Thus, the idea that men can be called gods (little-g) is thoroughly Biblical, and is approved by Jesus Christ himself.

However, we do not believe that men will ever attain the same rank as Jesus Christ, much less God the Father. Again from D & C 76:

 59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

60 And they shall overcome all things.

61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet. (D & C 76:58–61)

Note that men belong to Christ, just as Christ belongs to God the Father. Note too that it is God who subdues all enemies, not man. Men cannot exalt themselves; God must lift them up through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And those who receive all things will always be subordinate to Jesus Christ.

All of this is Biblical. The reference to overcoming all things reminds me of the words of Jesus Christ as recorded in the Revelation of St. John:

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev. 3:21)

I hope that clarifies things.

[colorcountry]

I understand the concept Mormons have of God always being superior to this world, and that Christ is the creator of this world.

What you are trying to disguise is the idea that man can progress to become a god of his own world just as Jesus is god of this world. Someday even the spirit children of your own creation may become a god of his own world.

Logophile, I have already posted links. You're starting to look like Romney. Just be truthful, God will work it out, right?

[colorcountry]

And another thing. the exegesis is clear about Psalms 82:6 that John recalls in John 10:35 35: If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came,

This is in referrence to idols. In the OT times, there existed many false gods. These scriptures are clearly referrencing thos false gods and not His children.

I Corinthians 8:5; “For even if there are so-called “gods”, whether in heaven or on earth [as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”] yet for us there is but ONE God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things come and through whom we live."

[DungeonMaster]

There is always media focus on the religion of Republican candidates. Being a Mormon is a real problem for a lot of us.

[sevenbak]

"It worries me that you and Mitt think that you can achieve perfection. Why do you think over 1/2 of all Mormons have left the rat race.....it simply cannot be accomplished. That's why I issued a "good luck" to sevenbak. "

When I am commanded to "Be ye therefore perfect, even as heavenly Father is" to me that is an invitation to come unto Christ and be perfected in Him. I can't do it without him, he is the master healer and helps me when I fail. The fact that I am mortal and sin continually isn't what this is about, it is how we accept what He has done for us, closing the gaps between our imperfections, and God's perfection.

[colorcountry]

There are no gaps. If you break the law you are quilty. James 2:10 tell us this: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Or as the NASB says: For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

You are not perfect, sevenbak, you are guilty! You stand condemned for your sins in the eyes of God, because God can't abhor sin.

To be perfect as Christ is, you need the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus to cover you 100%. This is one the the vast differences between Mormons and Christians.

[colorcountry]

God can't abhor abide sin.

[sevenbak]

"To be perfect as Christ is, you need the sacrifice of the blood of Jesus to cover you 100%."

Please explain how this is different at all to what I posted?


You are reaching for something that is not there! Helaman 5: 9 O remember, remember, my sons, the awords which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the batoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to credeem the dworld. 10 And remember also the words which Amulek spake unto Zeezrom, ain the city of Ammonihah; for he said unto him that the Lord surely should come to redeem his people, but that he should not come to redeem them in their sins, but to redeem them from their sins. 11 And he hath power given unto him from the Father to redeem them from their sins because of repentance; therefore he hath asent his angels to declare the tidings of the conditions of repentance, which bringeth unto the power of the Redeemer, unto the salvation of their souls. 12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the arock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your bfoundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty cstorm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.

[colorcountry]

Wow, do you really want to get into the subject of just exactly how the greek words "Jesus Christ" make their way into the Book of Mormon that was supposedly written prior to the time Christ was born, in a language called Reformed Egyptian?

It appears by your post that mormonism is trying to morph its doctrine to appear more and more mainstream. My grandparents must be rolling in their graves. They would have been appalled to be called Christian. They were Latter-Day-Saints, period.

Here is what they thought of Christians, that they belonged to the great whore church, the mother of abominations:

1 Nephi 14:[10] And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

Do you disagree?

[sevenbak]

You are a former member of the Church, and know full well that the BOM teaches that these prophets knew of Christ several hundred years before His coming, by revelation.</p>

2nd Nephi 25:
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we akeep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the alaw given; wherefore the law hath become bdead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we atalk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we bprophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our cchildren may know to what source they may look for a dremission of their sins.

I don't know why your parents felt the way they do about other Christians. Perhaps that explains a few things about your animosity towards us now.

[colorcountry]

You are a former member of the Church, and know full well that the BOM teaches that these prophets knew of Christ several hundred years before His coming, by revelation.

Yes I know that. I'm not talking about knowledge. A hebrew would have said the Messiah, or the Prophet. A Hebrew would never even know the words Jesus Christ. I doubt id Jesus Christ himself knew that particular title. You DO know it wasn't his name, don't you?

What I asked was how did the greek word "jesus christ" become written down in a language that was foreign to the Hebrews on this continent, who were writing in a language called Egyptian.

Sevenbak, In my mind these suggestions of the LDS church are ridiculous. I have to wonder why on earth Romney would believe them. AND if he does, do I want him to be POTUS.

[sevenbak]

I don't portend to know the ways of God, they are not mine. But I know God does His purposes in His own way.

How did his name get mentioned? How did Mary learn of His name? The same way Mosiah learned His name, by an Angel of God.</p>



2 And the things which I shall tell you are made known unto me by an angel from God. And he said unto me: awake; and I awoke, and behold he stood before me.
3 And he said unto me: Awake, and hear the words which I shall tell thee; for behold, I am come to declare unto you the glad tidings of great Joy.
4 For the Lord hath heard thy prayers, and hath judged of thy righteousness, and hath sent me to declare unto thee that thou mayest rejoice; and that thou mayest declare unto thy people, that they may also be filled with joy.
5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who creigneth, who was, and is from all deternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.
6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.
7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, chunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can dsuffer, except it be unto death; for behold, eblood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his fanguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.
8 And he shall be called aJesus bChrist, the cSon of God, the dFather of heaven and earth, the eCreator of all things from the beginning; and his fmother shall be called Mary.
9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that asalvation might come unto the children of men even through bfaith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a cdevil, and shall dscourge him, and shall ecrucify him.
10 And he shall arise the bthird day from the dead; and behold, he standeth to cjudge the world; and behold, all these things are done that a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.
11 For behold, and also his ablood batoneth for the sins of those who have cfallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the dwill of God concerning them, or who have eignorantly sinned.
12 But wo, wo unto him who knoweth that he arebelleth against God! For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the bLord Jesus Christ.

[colorcountry]

You are dancing on the head of a pin. Mary named him Joshua,(Hebrew) not Jesus (Greek). Jesus is what the greek scribes wrote in the books of the New Testament. It means Joshua, Savior.

Are you starting to understand what I'm saying here?

[sevenbak]

I followed you from the beginning. But it's Yeshua, not Joshua. The BOM was translated in an era, and for a people that had already interpreted Yeshua to mean Jesus. So your point?

[colorcountry]

The BOM was translated in an era, and for a people that had already interpreted Yeshua to mean Jesus. So your point?

You also understand that Joseph Smith 'translated' nothing. He couldn't read "reformed Egyptian." Not one on earth could. God supposedly spoke the words to Joseph and he spoke them to a scribe that wrote it down. This is not the process that the term translation describes.

It was written for our era and we also would have recognized the term Messiah, which would have been more true to Hebrew usage. I know to True Believers this isn't a problem, but to anyone who seriously investigates, it is just another layer of inanity.

I do recognize your right to believe how you wish. But you must recognize my right to think you are foolish. Only in Mormonism is there something too sacred to talk about. The rest of the world is talking. Get used to it.

I also understand that there are those on FreeRepublic that are uncomfortable with this type of discussion. If we can judge Mormonism, then that means their religious beliefs are also subject to investigation. There are many who want to shut down conversations like this, because they don't want to appear bigotted, but personally, I value truth. If your beliefs don't stand up to truth and investigation, is it my fault? Is it the Media's fault?

[sevenbak]

You are partly right. The Jews that knew him in that era as the Messiah called him that. To me that is just another great thing about the universality of it. If JS was making all this up, after translating the Book of Mormon and all the references to Jesus in there, do you honestly think he would have forgotten to have John the Baptist call Jesus Jesus. He didn't. John knew him as Messiah.

Doctrine and Covenants 13:1
Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.

[colorcountry]

Um, seven, the Doctrine and Covenants is not the Book of Mormon.

The Doctrine and Covenants were written by Joseph Smith, and aren't even pretend messages from past.

I'll give you the last word here, because frankly I'm tired of this dialogue. It doesn't have anything to do with Mitt.

But thanks for taking the time to explore, I do appreciate it.