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New York, New York Rudy vs. Hillary in 2008? [NOONAN]
The Wallstreet Journal ^ | Friday, February 9, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 02/11/2007 4:34:50 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner

According to polls, Hillary Clinton holds an early and significant lead among Democratic voters (43%, compared with 22% for Barack Obama in a Fox News poll 10 days ago). She is of course the killer fund-raiser of the race, with one of her contributors crowing this week that she'll raise more money than all the other candidates combined. So let's call her the likely Democratic nominee, even though Mr. Obama hasn't even announced yet. On the Republican side it's Giuliani time, with Fox News putting him at 34% among GOP voters and John McCain coming in second with 22%. He hasn't announced yet either, but this week he filed all the papers. So at the moment, and with keen awareness that not a vote has been cast, it is possible to say the state of New York is poised to become the home of both major-party presidential candidates.

This is not unprecedented, but it is unusual. It happened in 1904, when New York was the home of the hero of Oyster Bay, President Theodore Roosevelt, and reluctant Democratic nominee Alton Parker, a judge on New York's Court of Appeals, who carried only the solid South. It happened again in New York in 1944, when Teddy's cousin Franklin sought a fourth term against the bland and mustachioed Thomas Dewey, the New York district attorney unforgettably labeled by Teddy's daughter, the chilly and amusing Alice Roosevelt Longworth, "the little man on the wedding cake." In 1920 both the Democratic and Republican nominees were from Ohio; Sen. Warren Harding, who seemed boring but proved sprightly, landslided Democrat James Cox, a dreamy Wilsonian who thought America wished to hear more about the League of Nations. (Illinois was the first state to enjoy dual nominees when Republican Abraham Lincoln beat Stephen Douglas,

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; electionpresident; gop; guiliani; hillary; noonan; republicans; rinos; sandpaperelection
Nice background on two candidates from the same state.

I didn't quite realize how insular Peggy was--I knew New Yorkers were, but I didn't know Peggy had picked this up.

There's probably a less than 10% chance of a Rudy v. Hillary matchup. I think Rudy has about a 10% chance of getting the Republican nomination. I think Hillary has about a 90% chance of the democrat nomination.

As always, Peggy gets in some interesting lines. These are my favorites:

"In politics, in the world of political life, the proper attitude of a third wife is modesty.

Mrs. Clinton also has an interesting spouse."

And later she gets in another dig at Hillary:

"Her life has been lived within a motorcade. "

She calls her a limosine liberal in other terms.

1 posted on 02/11/2007 4:34:57 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Come on Hunter team... Let's slime Peggy... she did say the "G" word.


2 posted on 02/11/2007 4:41:50 PM PST by nctexan
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Noonan has become a BDS hate spewing idiot. Any column written by her should be ignored. She is a has been that is arrogant and vindictive. Her BDS kicked in after she was denied a speech writing for GW. After that occurred she has been spewing vile since. She is the same as Pelosi just on the other side of the aisle.
3 posted on 02/11/2007 4:42:06 PM PST by jrooney ( Hold your cards close.)
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To: jrooney
"Noonan has become a BDS hate spewing idiot.

Wow... you were faster that I could have imagined!

4 posted on 02/11/2007 4:43:37 PM PST by nctexan
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To: nctexan
I used to have much respect for Noonan, until the last few years. Her writing has taken an obvious change for the worst with spewing vile and hatred. She comes across as arrogant, a lot like Pelosi. It sickens me because I wasted many years enjoying her work. The real Noonan has been exposed.

One of her articles over a year ago or so, complained that GW referenced God too much. Any republican or conservative that has a problem with God being referenced is a wolf wearing sheeps clothing.
5 posted on 02/11/2007 4:49:27 PM PST by jrooney ( Hold your cards close.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

6 posted on 02/11/2007 4:52:53 PM PST by B4Ranch (You're in America now. Here we speak English.)
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To: jrooney
Noonan has become a BDS hate spewing idiot.

OK, what does BDS mean? It's new to me.

7 posted on 02/11/2007 4:55:51 PM PST by cayuga (A 9mm is a .45 set to Stun. NRA-Life)
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To: cayuga
Bush Derangement Syndrome. It is the same thing that affects most on the left. It has been openly spoken about for several years as blind hatred for GW, whereas even his positives are ignored.
8 posted on 02/11/2007 4:57:59 PM PST by jrooney ( Hold your cards close.)
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To: cayuga

BDS=Bush Derangement syndrome.

Coined by Krauthammer, it describes how libs become deranged, hateful and vile when Bush becomes a subject of any conversation around them.


9 posted on 02/11/2007 5:05:52 PM PST by voletti (Awareness and Equanimity.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

"I didn't quite realize how insular Peggy was--I knew New Yorkers were, but I didn't know Peggy had picked this up."

Did you read the last paragraph? It sums up the article and makes the point of Hillary!s insulation. Peggy may be insular but she does write well and makes a good point there at the end.


10 posted on 02/11/2007 5:13:17 PM PST by DugwayDuke (A patriot will cast their vote in the manner most likely to deny power to democrats.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I think Rudy has about a 10% chance of getting the Republican nomination.

Why do you think this? Who do think will take it and why?

I think Hillary has about a 90% chance of the democrat nomination.

I think that's good news for Republicans. I think if the Republicans picked Daffy Duck he could beat her.

11 posted on 02/11/2007 5:16:05 PM PST by Jim 0216
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Hillary and Rudy.

Not my vote. Not on your life!


12 posted on 02/11/2007 5:16:46 PM PST by Reagan Man (Conservatives don't vote for liberals.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
I think Rudy Guiliani has much better than a 10% chance of getting the Republican nomination. And if he hints at a VP selection like Duncan Hunter to balance the politics as well as the geography, his chance will improve that much more.

Then it comes down to political purity versus political reality.

13 posted on 02/11/2007 5:17:55 PM PST by Bernard (Immigration should be rare, safe and legal.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Is there a way to throw New York out of the Union, and let Rudy and Hillary fight it out for President of New York? There is no way that either of those two can represent the other states.


14 posted on 02/11/2007 5:22:44 PM PST by TommyDale (Who do you trust? An ex-mayor? Or the ranking member of the House Committee on Armed Services?)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
At this point Giuliani is the only electable candidate with the intelligence and will to win the war on terror.

What I despise about the Left is that they can't put aside their domestic agenda and unite against a common enemy. To them the biggest enemy lives right here at home.

Surpise! The morons on the Right have the same mind-set.

15 posted on 02/11/2007 5:25:24 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry

Please back up your claim that ONLY Rudy is electable and can win the War on Terror. You can't. That is a preposterous claim.


16 posted on 02/11/2007 5:33:07 PM PST by TommyDale (Who do you trust? An ex-mayor? Or the ranking member of the House Committee on Armed Services?)
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To: Jim 0216

I just hope to be spared from a subway series.


17 posted on 02/11/2007 5:33:59 PM PST by BigSkyDream
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To: jrooney

There are secular right-wing conservatives; quite a lot are of libertarian persuasion, Being a bibler is not a sine qua non for being a conservative.


18 posted on 02/11/2007 5:56:02 PM PST by GSlob
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To: Jim 0216
I said: "I think Rudy has about a 10% chance of getting the Republican nomination."

You said: "Why do you think this? Who do think will take it and why?"

Rudy is pro-abortion, pro-gay, and anti-gun--all against the Republican party platform and the majority of the primary voters. The killer is the pro-abort position, since that is life and death issue to many Republican, primary voters. They will vote for anyone but Rudy.

Rudy can still get in if he repudiates his pro-abort position and picks an anti-abort VP and if the other candidates split the anti-abort vote.

I said: "I think Hillary has about a 90% chance of the democrat nomination."

You said: "I think that's good news for Republicans. I think if the Republicans picked Daffy Duck he could beat her."

You're assuming the electorate votes rationally. I lost faith in that in 1976 and in 1996.
19 posted on 02/11/2007 6:01:10 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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To: liberallarry

How would you feel if VP Cheney ran for Pres?

How would you feel if Jeb Bush ran for Pres?


20 posted on 02/11/2007 6:03:18 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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To: Corin Stormhands; areafiftyone; PhiKapMom; BunnySlippers; JulieRNR21; Lancey Howard; Peach; ...

Here's another editorial on the improbable direction of the 2008 Presidential race.


21 posted on 02/11/2007 6:42:46 PM PST by Clintonfatigued (If the GOP were to stop worshiping Free Trade as if it were a religion, they'd win every election)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Cheney: the Dems would love it, until he fought back. But the fact that he's had 4 heart attacks will rule him out.

Bush: another Bush? Sorry, but this is almost as bad as having another Clinton in the mix. Through in the Doles and you have presidential politics for the last 30+ years!

22 posted on 02/11/2007 6:43:32 PM PST by Tanniker Smith (For the children and the flowers are my sisters and my brothers . . .)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Y'all just have to watch this. Too funny.

http://i.euniverse.com/funpages/cms_content/13180/HillaryCondi_HoDown.swf
23 posted on 02/11/2007 6:49:01 PM PST by Islander7 ("Show me an honest politician and I will show you a case of mistaken identity.")
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To: Clintonfatigued

Thanks for the ping!


24 posted on 02/11/2007 7:22:40 PM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- Rudy 08 -- Take back the House and Senate in 2008)
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To: Tanniker Smith

It'd be hard to complain about another Bush in the mix if the Dems run Hillary...Hillary's and Bills past should end any arguement about the past marriage of Guiliani, McCain, or Newt... I don't think the Clintons want fidelity to be an issue!!


25 posted on 02/11/2007 8:12:59 PM PST by Froggie
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To: TommyDale
That is a preposterous claim

Of course it is because it's so early in the game. But it's true at this moment.

26 posted on 02/11/2007 9:03:16 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
How would you feel if VP Cheney ran for Pres? How would you feel if Jeb Bush ran for Pres?

Neither of them is even remotely electable...but if I they were and I had to choose between either of them and Hillary and Obama I'd vote for them...even though I really suspect Cheney of gross dishonety and selfishness. The Muslims are far worse for this country.

27 posted on 02/11/2007 9:07:46 PM PST by liberallarry
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To: B4Ranch

Nice poster. I wouldn't ever vote for Rudy unless he had a labotomy. Better a stupid pres than an evil, gun grabbing pres.


28 posted on 02/11/2007 9:30:12 PM PST by MtnClimber
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To: jrooney
He has positives left? What are they. No, really. One borders, Medicare expansion, pork spending, social security for illegals, use of bully pulpit, "flatter, fairer, simpler" tax reform and more he's a disaster. He just embraced the "global climate change" scam as well.

America is not a theocracy. In a free exercise nation, there is real danger in referencing God too much. Depending on the context, Bush may seem as deranged as Mullahs in Iran or Pat Robertson on TV. If W were conservative (rather than just claiming to be) and projected at least a marginal appearance of competence, his invocation of Almighty God wouldn't be so concerning.

The Bush's are killing the Republican Party. Bush 41 gave us Bill Clinton and a unified Dem gov't. They screwed up, fortunately, but now we're on the outside. It's going to be very hard to win the White House in 2008 but I want to win with someone who isn't crazy (McCain), two-faced (Mitt) or left of even W (Rudy)!

29 posted on 02/12/2007 4:00:17 AM PST by newzjunkey (RINO RUDY? NO abortion-on-demand nominees!)
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To: nctexan
Come on Hunter team... Let's slime Peggy... she did say the "G" word.

CiGar?

30 posted on 02/12/2007 4:37:28 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: DugwayDuke
Peggy may be insular but she does write well and makes a good point there at the end.

That, if the Dems are going to nominate someone from Chappaqua who runs well in Flatbush, that the Republicans need to counter with someone who really knows the Lower East Side?

31 posted on 02/12/2007 4:47:35 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Jim 0216
I think if the Republicans picked Daffy Duck he could beat her.

Perhaps they should pick Daffy, then.
Unfortunately, they'll probably settle for someone less conservative, less popular, and less likely to win.

32 posted on 02/12/2007 4:51:10 AM PST by wai-ming
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To: Froggie; Mia T
Hillary's and Bills past should end any arguement about the past marriage of Guiliani, McCain, or Newt... I don't think the Clintons want fidelity to be an issue!!

Oh, but you underestimate them. Of course they do -- if it's somebody else's!!!

Do you think -- think about this for a minute -- do you think Hillary would have run for the Senate in 2000 if a) Rudy were running and b) Rudy were not having an affair while married?

Rudy's extramarital affair, which of course lots of people would say, indignantly, was his private business, opened the door for Hillary to be elected to the Senate. And it may have opened the door to the White House.

Think about that for a bit.

But to go back to your point, would she have run for the Senate seat from New York, knowing that Rudy might possibly announce, if she wasn't prepared to play "duelling fidelities" with Rudy on the subject of matrimony and morality? Of course she was. Cynically, barfably, but of course she was ready, with brass-foreheaded hypocrisy, to fight that fight.

And she'd do it now in a heartbeat. When the prize is power, she's always ready.

Remember, it was she and Tom Daschle who bucked up Slick to fight the fight over the 1995 government shutdown, which was a bluff by Congressional Republicans to get Clinton to sign their budget bill and not veto it. Hillary was the one who argued to cut millions of people's Government checks off --- she knew what that would do to women who needed that check. She's extremely cold-blooded, cynical, and ruthless.

Don't underestimate her or her goat-footed consort.

Mia T, a penny for your thoughts on this.

33 posted on 02/12/2007 5:12:23 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: liberallarry

He might appear electable, but he is definitely NOT the only person who could win the War on Terror. That part is not only preposterous, but insane.


34 posted on 02/12/2007 5:25:09 AM PST by TommyDale (Who do you trust? An ex-mayor? Or the ranking member of the House Committee on Armed Services?)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner; All
From first lady of Arkansas through first lady of the United States to U.S. senator, her life has been eased and cosseted by staff--by aides, drivers, cooks, Secret Service, etc. Her life has been lived within a motorcade. And so she didn't have to worry about crime, the cost of things, the culture. Status incubates. Rudy Giuliani was fighting a deterioration she didn't have to face. That's a big difference. It's the difference between the New Yorker in the subway and the Wall Street titan in the town car.

PEGGY NOONAN
New York, New York
Rudy vs. Hillary in 2008?
Friday, February 9, 2007



Missus clinton's fatal defect is not incubation per se, but rather the inability to survive outside of the incubator. The clinton machine's strategies, tactics and schemes flow directly from this simple fact.

Noonan misses this bottom line.

 
 

With a Q scorea measure of celebrity likability among the hoi polloiin the toilet, missus clinton can win elections only by running virtually unopposed...

And then only with the help of protheses, props, poses, PR machines, scripted appearances, screened audiences, vetted questions, Secret Service barracades,
secret police, softball settings and sycophantic hosts... fictionalizing, 'humanizing,' digitizing and otherwise hiding the real hillary clinton.

And then we have the baggage....

Anyone else but a clinton would have been summarily laughed off the stage.

The American people must understand that to get this defective candidate elected, the clintons must pervert the electoral process, turn democracy on its head. That is to say, the best candidate must lose.

Hence the threats to the big donors.....

HILLARY CLINTON'S Q SCORE
Hollywood take note
(WHAT THE HELL IS THIS MORIBUND LOSER DOING IN THE POLITICAL ARENA ANYWAY?)
by Mia T, 01.26.07

 

WILL HILLARY CLINTON RUN?
COMBINATORIAL GAME THEORY MAY PROVIDE THE ANSWER



HILLARY CLINTON'S Q SCORE
Hollywood take note


A HILLARY 'LANDSLIDE'??? NOT SO FAST, MISSUS CLINTON....


THE CLINTON MACHINE IS 'TRYING TO STRANGLE THE OBAMA CANDIDACY IN ITS CRADLE'
AN OPEN LETTER TO HOLLYWOOD



THE ABSURDITY OF HILLARY
(What the media and Dick Morris aren't telling us about Obama-clinton numbers.)



HILLARY! RAMPS UP CLINTON SECRET POLICE: THREAT INTENDED TO SILENCE OPPONENTS


HILLARY "Zelig" CLINTON: WHEN A CONGENITAL LIAR'S RUTHLESS AMBITION EXCEEDS HER ABILITY


HILLARY CLINTON DONS THATCHER GETUP (new proof!) BUT--oops!--EVOKES THE WRONG MARGARET


CHRIS MATTHEWS: EARLY INDICATOR OF HILLARY CLINTON'S LACK OF CANDOR-- LET'S BE BLUNT


TOP 10 REASONS TO DUMP HILLARY CLINTON ON NOVEMBER 7
(And she thinks New Yorkers should return her to office why?)



HANGING HILLARY: ClintoNNpolls fraud
HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR 6


THE 'MATERNALIZATION' OF HILLARY
(CLINTON MACHINE DUMPS THATCHER FOR 'MOTHER')

HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR 5


SEX, LIES AND SOCK PUPPETS:
HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR 4


THREE WOMEN AND A FUNERAL:
HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR 3


REINVENTING HILLARY... AGAIN
(clinton machine dumps Geena Davis for Margaret Thatcher)
HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR 2


SCHEMA PINOCCHIO
HOW THE CLINTONS ARE HANDLING THE HILLARY DUD FACTOR





COPYRIGHT MIA T 2007


35 posted on 02/12/2007 6:58:34 AM PST by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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To: jrooney
Noonan has become a BDS hate spewing idiot. Any column written by her should be ignored. She is a has been that is arrogant and vindictive. Her BDS kicked in after she was denied a speech writing for GW. After that occurred she has been spewing vile since. She is the same as Pelosi just on the other side of the aisle.

Actually this article is pretty good. Yes, she's had some odd clunkers lately, but your post is what is coming across as vindictive and spewing vile. To say that Noonan is the same as Pelosi is ridiculous.

36 posted on 02/12/2007 7:16:38 AM PST by Diddle E. Squat (Rudy Giuliani-Joe Dyton in '08; and free the Texas 3.)
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To: liberallarry; All
 

Check out what the wonderful conservative warrior, R. Emmett Tyrrell has to say.

I hope and pray that Tyrrell is right, that all factions will come to their senses and unite in the end, around Rudy [or, I would add, whichever candidate gets the nod].

The 'logic' of those refusing to vote for Rudy:

Rudy is a too 'liberal' 'New Yorker' so they will place their de facto vote for missus clinton, a Stalinist New Yorker, albeit fake, (fake New Yorker, not fake Stalinist), who

It does the conservative cause no good to become petulant and self-destructive.

Do conservatives really want

I find it hard to believe that those people aren't able to discern the difference between Giuliani and clinton. Frankly, if true, it is frightening.

I am advocating for Giuliani not because of his ideology. I am advocating for him because I believe he possesses the qualities that this country desperately needs in these perilous times... and because I believe he, unlike all the others, will actually win.

The other night, I heard a man who is not perfect, but a man of rare intelligence, humility, warmth, competence, strength and leadership.

We will be fortunate, indeed, and our babies, born and unborn, living and not yet imagined, will be infinitely safer, if he is our next president.

37 posted on 02/12/2007 7:27:02 AM PST by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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To: lentulusgracchus; All

Missus clinton is no victim.


Infidelity allows hillary clinton to play the victim for votes, yet again. Let's not fall into that trap. We must take the offensive.


The two elephants in the room are the clintons' 1 rape of Juanita Broaddrick 2 and their terrorism failure 3.


It doesn't require more than half a brain and 10% of the data to understand why this self-absorbed, noxious, vacant pair must not be allowed anywhere near the Oval Office ever again.

We must make sure the electorate get at least 10% of the data.

WE MUST TAKE THE OFFENSIVE. We must target the demographic missus clinton is targeting: women, and especially young, single women. (I will be posting more on this soon.)

For power and treasure, missus clinton abused women and the vulnerable all her life. Now, in her final assault, she is exploiting them, abusing them yet again. We cannot allow this to happen.

 



38 posted on 02/12/2007 7:43:00 AM PST by Mia T (Stop Clintons' Undermining Machinations (The acronym is the message.))
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To: Mia T

Well stated.

I will not advocate for Rudy, at least at this time. However, as of right now, I don't see anybody better able to gain the Republican nomination and the voter's support for the White House. I hope that changes, but that's the lay of the land right now.

I will certainly vote for him rather than ANY of the Demodogs who have announced to this time, and I will be delighted to work for his election in the general if he is nominated.


39 posted on 02/12/2007 8:13:32 AM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: lentulusgracchus

I'd hate to spoil the suspense. If you want to know the answer to your question read the last paragraph of the article.


40 posted on 02/12/2007 4:07:49 PM PST by DugwayDuke (A patriot will cast their vote in the manner most likely to deny power to democrats.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Unfortunatly, if Hillary! looks like she is going to get the democratic nomination, you can gurantee that Rudy! will get the Republican nomination


41 posted on 02/12/2007 9:44:55 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

"Unfortunatly, if Hillary! looks like she is going to get the democratic nomination, you can gurantee that Rudy! will get the Republican nomination"

I don't get how they are connected. I assume the Republican primary voters will vote for the candidate they want regardless of the Democratic nomination.

So why do you think so?


42 posted on 02/13/2007 11:26:39 AM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Rudy is seen as someone who can cream Hillary! in the general election.


43 posted on 02/13/2007 2:29:00 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

"Rudy is seen as someone who can cream Hillary! in the general election."

Seen by who? He must convince the majority of Republican primary voters. How do you respond to these facts?

1. The majority of Republican primary voters are anti-abortion.
2. Rudy must convince them to vote for him rather than an anti-abortion candidate (Mitt Romney, for example.)

How will Rudy do this? I don't think it is likely.


44 posted on 02/14/2007 9:05:04 AM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner

Not to mention that Rudy won't get an endorsement from the NRA, which is an athema to any Republican primary candidate.


45 posted on 02/14/2007 2:09:17 PM PST by Thunder90
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
Nice background on two candidates from the same state

Excuse me?

Rudy and I are both from New York, although I am now blessed to live in New Hampshire.

Hillary Clinton, wherever she happens to live, has never been from New York, is not from New York now, and will never BE from New York, however long she pretends.

46 posted on 02/14/2007 2:12:37 PM PST by Jim Noble
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To: Jim Noble

I said "Nice background on two candidates from the same state"

You said: "Excuse me?

Rudy and I are both from New York, although I am now blessed to live in New Hampshire.

Hillary Clinton, wherever she happens to live, has never been from New York, is not from New York now, and will never BE from New York, however long she pretends."

LOL! I wasn't refering to Hillary and Rudy, but all the other dual candidates from the same state throughout our history. Peggy covers them all, back to Lincoln.


47 posted on 02/14/2007 5:36:57 PM PST by Forgiven_Sinner (Here's an experiment for God's existence: Ask Him to contact you.)
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