Domestication Event: Why The Donkey And Not The Zebra?

The State ^ | 10-23-2006 | Eric Hand

[Bernard Marx]

So right. They're really quite amazing to study.

[Renfield]

There is a European Wild Cat (Felis silvestris silvestris) that looks just like our domestic housecat, but as I understand it, all attempts to domesticate it have failed. It's just too wild. The African Wild Cat is domesticable, and is assumed to be the ancestor of housecats.

Some years ago I had a friend who had a cat that he claimed was half Bobcat, half domestic. I don't know if such a thing is possible, but that cat actually looked like a bobcat/housecat hybrid, and it behaved like one, too. It was definitely not a purry, loveable lapcat, even though he had raised it from a kitten. It had longer legs than a normal housecat, too.

[Bernard Marx]

Jared Diamond's entire book was utter anti-western nonsense, how else could it have won him a Pulitzer?

Impeccable reasoning on your part. I threw the book at a wall after a few chapters when I saw where it was going.

[Renfield]

"....Only the elephant can dance, and it poorly...."

Cranes, on the other hand, dance elegantly.

[Arthalion]

What about the camel, elephant, water buffalo, yak, llama, and alpaca?

There's a difference between domestication and taming. The use of the animals you mention are all still heavily dependent on wild stock to supplement domestic breeding. With domesticated animals, you have a closed system leading to adaptations specifically for human use. With tamed animals, you still have an animal identical to its wild counterpart, but which is simply living under the control of man.

Pigs, sheep, and dogs are domesticated. Elephant and yak are tamed.

[Rameumptom]

I believe Diamond's distinction in "Guns, Germs and Steel" was in the herd nature of the animals. Ie Horses will follow their herd "leader" while Zebras will not follow the herd leader but resemble an pack of indpendant animals more. Humans can domesticate the animals that then follow them as the herd leader.

I agree Diamond is a lib. But His book does look at a larger system view of why some cultures dominate and some get wiped out. It's a good read for those interested in looking at how weapon/technology was passed/stolen among cultures. He discusses why those with domesticated animals develop immunities to germs that wipe out other cultures. Of course he missed the larger picture that those Countries that follow God and promote Freedom are More "inspired" and develop quicker. So his book is flawed in not acknowledgeing God. But as for analyzing the underlying processes that Plant and Animal domestication and transfer of technology and language among peoples, it's OK. I really thought it was a good read, and I'm a strict constitutionalist politially.

He has been criticized by the Green/Eco movement quite a bit too for the work he has done with Oil Companies, he talks about it in his next book, Collapse.

[Gator101]

I believe most people believe the cat was domesticated in Egypt, not Europe as the chart above says.

I believe you are correct. It is my understanding that all domestic cats descended from the African Wildcat, like the one pictured here:

I have also read that the domestic cat spread throughout the world so quickly because they took quite willingly to ships. Because of the rats that most ships were plagued with, sailors loved to have a good cat aboard who was happy to hunt rats all day down in the holds.

[BJClinton]

All but the Cat actually has a use.

Before plastics how was one to make tennis rackets?

[Erasmus]

They all got plenty to eat, after they moved in with me, but the mother continued to kill mice. I once estimated that she was averaging at least 5 mice a day, from the fields around the house. I never saw any evidence that she was eating them.

She was just keeping in practice, in case you ever kicked her out.

[Jack Black]

Good insight. Because there are tame zebras in the circus.

I'm not an expert but I believe that camels meet your definition of domesticated. (I don't think there are significant wild herds, and racing camels have been bread for hundreds of years (or more).

I don't know much about water buffalo or llamas and alpacas.

Yak wander around in herds on the Tibetan plateau?

[To Hell With Poverty]

This didn't start out as a kitty discussion, but it sort of ended up as one...

[Mr. Lucky]

...or glove liners?

[Erasmus]

(The immortal) Thomas Nast.

[reformedliberal]

Find a beagle/hound mix. When we had one, we had no rabbits. But we had moles. The Akita gets rid of the moles, but finds possums more fun that rabbits, unless he can find a nest of baby bunnies. However, he does a great job of keeping the deer away from the lilies and tomatoes.

Beagles love to chase rabbits, they fixate on the scent and it is fun to watch them zig and zag exactly on the rabbit trail. Then they find them and eat them! The trick is to keep them from getting too fat to chase rabbits.

And I sympathize: I had a 5-year old ornamental vine destroyed at the roots by the nasty beasts. They leave a pile of identifiable droppings, so there was no mistaking the culprit. We need another beagle.

[Salamander]

Get an Ibizan Hound and you'll have no pests of any size or species.
If it can't run [or fly] faster than 40 mph, they'll catch it.

[Verginius Rufus]

Where do Przhewalski's horses fit into this picture? I assume they are a different species than the domesticated horse.

[Old Professer]

And they fall over on their asses when you load 'em up.

[ASA Vet]

This didn't start out as a kitty discussion

Contrary to what my previous posts on this thread might indicate, there some kitties of which I approve, actively pursue.

[blam]

"Jared Diamond's argument that Africa lacked domesticatable species was utter nonsense."

Thank you, I agree. His attempt at an explanation was laughable.

[blam]

"Isn't there substantial evidence of dogs living with Neandertals? More than 40,000 years ago?"

I don't know of any evidence for that idea.