Posted on 08/08/2006 4:14:27 AM PDT by Renfield
I don't think so, when it serves a higher purpose which we are not aware of, or when He wants to, he certainly can and does, but he is privy to all the info that we are not, and so for us the divine intervention is not what we wish for on a daily basis, and in fact isn't what we call divine intervention, really a wish for our own intervention, thus cheapening the divine.
Sobering piece.
I understand what you are saying and you are saying it all very well. The fact remains, someone here said "it will take Divine Intervention to save Israel" and I questioned whether or not there ever would be such intervention, given that none came against the Nazis and now you are giving us all wonderful things to think about in terms of the theological meaning of divine intervention but, I'm sorry to say, you are saying nothing that gives anyone any hope that any help will come to Israel, other than what it can do for itself, and the little bit of help it gets from the US.
You are doing a good job of explaining the meaning of divine intervention, but what's it all mean in terms of the survival of Israel?
Hezbollah is basically an arm of the Iranian army.
Mr. Stein is right. Hezbollah is part and parcel of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards.
L
On the day of judgement, they will wish that were true.
Ah, but we weren't talking about Israel? If we want continual evidence of divine intervention in the case of Israel, the list is endless, and thus the Children of Israel, made up of all of the adoptive and real descendents of Jacob, son of Isaac, son of Abraham, will have no excuses for their forgetting the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, and thus the cause of their prophesied dispersion and their prophesied gathering in the last days, one example of which began before 1948, but culminated in 1948 with the no less than Miraculous formation of the state of Israel.
This was followed by numerous conflicts with the surrounding foe and though outnumbered by endless hoards of neighbors, was victorious in all of them, while at the same time being seriously challenged. In other words divine intervention is not necessarly a cake walk, but it must be undeniable that victories have been miraculous as they must be for the world to recognize the hand of God as he restores the children of Isreal to their rightful places in the world and showing the forgiveness of a merciful God, even forgiving the nation of Judah, guilty of killing Jesus.
The U.S. has got to work arder to build a functional coalition AGAINST ISLAM.
And we MUST stop letting these lunatics in here.
Just today, 11 Egyptian "students" (probably botany majors) ran away from a flight transporting them to Montana.
I hope some of the survivialist groups up there catch up with them BEFORE the authorities do.
I am an atheist myself but but I fully share your belief
I'm familiar with the history of Israel and don't see any divine intervention, unless you want to talk about the high level of inspiration of the people themselves, doing great things in God's name, so to speak. And I don't mean to trivialize that. It's the difference between Western Civilization and many other barbaric cultures (we have often done so well with our high aspirations and inspirations), but I don't see it as divine intervention as in parting the red sea or sending down a plague of locusts.
Personally, I'm not even hoping for plagues. I'd be happy if every Muslim miraculously converted to Christianity. Tomorrow. Now THAT would be divine intervention.
But I don't look for it to happen.
Thanks for pinging me to this.....I just sent it to a bunch of friends and relatives.....a little EDUCATION is GOOD!
I fiercely agree.
Excellent, excellent points.
I hope this gets a wide readership.
Given how much God HATES cruelty, violence, vengeance . . . they have no clue what will befall them as a people; as a religion; as leaders. No clue.
Well said.
Literally true to their spiritual father, as well.
"Allah" was a demonic tribal moon god before Mohammed's cohorts convinced him to make of the religion a new cause celebre as a way of gaining political control of the region--and then more and more and more.
I have long believed that.
The puppet masters may have set ukp the Islamists and particularly the Jihadi's to help scare the world into a golbal government. But I think even the puppet masters may not fully realize what a whirlwind they have unleashed. It will not leave THEM unscathed.
It IS an obsession with them. A very truly and literally DEMONIZED OBSESSION from the pit of hell.
As I read prophecies in Daniel, Ezekiel etc. . . . I and others I read believe there is yet to come a serious disciplining of Israel for forsaking putting and keeping God and God's priorities first and foremost in their individual, family and National lives.
BUT HE WILL DISCIPLINE THEM TO THE POINT THAT THEY WILL YET AGAIN PUT HIM FIRST--as they have throughout history when the pain became sufficiently serious enough long enough.
I suspect it may mean this time that they are threatened with extinction. I hope not.
HOWEVER, THEY WILL BE PROTECTED AND HELD FOREVERMORE CLOSE TO GOD'S HEART MORE OVERTLY AND LITERALLY probably than ever before. The whole world--INDEED ALL CREATION--will know that it was GOD ALMIGHTY--not America even--which truly saved and rescued Israel and set them on High as His truly chosen buddies.
I don't know precisely when by any means. I'm somewhat suspicious that it will be when the AntiChrist sets his image up in the Holy of Holies of the new Temple still to be built--then they will realize he is NOT their Messiah and begin fleeing for the mountains as the begins immediately from the Temple to slaughter them by the thousands.
It appearsthat there will be a period of pseudo peace before then. . . . perhaps a seemingly wonderful 'final' peace that's truly built on quicksand.
The Israeli's may yet have periods of it being very tough. But they will still come out on top. Their enemies will suffer far worse. Whole classes of their enemies will cease to exist as people groups--they will be 100% wiped out.
I love Israel passionately. It felt like I had been away in the Navy for 30 years and was finally coming HOME the first time I rode into Jerusalem on a 2 week tour of Israel.
I don't think anyone has Biblical prophecy all figured out. But it seems abundantly clear that we alive now shall mostly still be alive to see the fulfillment of such.
BTW, I don't pay so much attention any more to the whining assaultive naysayers. If you disagree--help yourself.
To quote someone above, biblically, it is supposed to get worse before it gets better, and only the return of the Messiah will save the Nation of Israel in the last days. But, I digress, in reference to the 1967 war with the Arabs, W. Cleon Skousen, in his book "Fantastic Victory" written in 1967 says this, "The unusual significance of this conflict was the breathtaking odds which were involved. Israel, with only two and three quarters million people, took on the combined opposition resources of 110 million who were backed by the boastful might of the Soviet Union."
The Israelis won in a most convincing way, not without losses, and not without six days of struggle and effort, but, they won never the less. The odds today, are probably even greater, and the various nations are once again supported by the Russians, as well as others. Israel was, is, and always, will be in an extremely precarious position when looking at the size and vulnerability of the small territory she calls her own, surrounded as she is by enemies on all sides. These facts alone make any victory or even her continued existence something on the pinnacle of divine intervention in my HO.
You may not agree, and in reality, who am I to claim or be an expert on DI, I just believe it exists, and blind as man is to things out of this world, or as we might say, the supernatural, there are probably thousands, no, millions of incidents, of divine intervention, that we just might view as life. I do appreciate the kind comments, and the reasoned and very polite conversation. Something that in todays world even on Freerepublic, isn't always. Sorry for the long delay, but work called and I've been on the road all day.
The "reporter" bringing the abnormally stupid "story" to the abysmally stupid Paula was a perky blond who couldn't keep the all-knowing, all-derisive, all-sneering smirk off her face as she laughingly listed the strange biblical things that "many Americans believe".
As you know, I personally do not believe in biblical prophecy. But I do respect Christianity and Christians and I was so offended by the stupid perky blond's stupid perky smirk that I really had a very strong urge to smash her face.
How silly of her fellow Americans, she was clearly saying between the lines, to actually take any trouble Israel might have seriously. How silly some Americans are, to believe that Islam is a threat, that there is any difference between the fighters on either side. As if Iran had nuclear weapons. As if Iran would use nuclear weapons. As if Iran would use nuclear weapons against anyone but the Jews. How silly those Christian Americans are! Look how perky and blond I am! You don't see me worrying!
I'm telling you, I want to smash her face. The smugness. The arrogance. The look-down-her-nose leftist superiority.
And then I got in this discussion here and I started thinking about what you all posted and everything I know about Christianity and I decided, thinking back to that incredibly stupid hateful perky blond and the incredibly stupid hateful Paula Zahn, to tweak my assessment a bit: Not incredibly stupid hateful. Just incredibly stupid. And I forgave them. And I forgive them. And I feel better for it.
Don't get me wrong. It doesn't change the way I vote or the way I donate political money. But I do forgive them their stupidity and I feel better for it.
As many have said on this forum, Christianity is responsible for the greatest civilization the world has ever seen. The very science that is so important to me, and which I see as superior to Christianity in many respects, owes its existence to the civilization that Christianity wrought. The idea of individual uniqueness --- which makes true Democracy possible --- is a Christian idea, completely unknown to the world before that great religion. (With the possible exception of Judeaism, which I count as part of Christianity anyway.)
We all owe so much to our Christian heritage --- including all us atheists --- and that's why I had the urge to smash that blond in the face. (Not anything I'd actually ever do, by the way; I'm just writing about an emotion, not a propensity to break laws, which I don't have.)
And it's part of that Christian heritage to understand the power of forgiveness, even for those of us who aren't Christians. And I thank you all for helping me remember that.
You wrote: As you know, I personally do not believe in biblical prophecy.
With all respect for your stance and with no intention here to try to convert you or anything, I do want to ask....what if you are wrong? And I ask from a standpoint of my own falling away from and subsequent return to God. It's a question that's led me back from the darkness I had for many years. A question I finally asked myself. FWIW.
There's an old song that came to mind when I was thinking about our prior conversation. Titled "Father Along", the chorus goes like this:
Farther along we'll know all about it.
Farther along we'll understand why.
Cheer up my brother, live in the sunshine.
We'll understand it all by and by.
Best regards and have a great day.
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