Posted on 03/21/2006 9:04:11 AM PST by Responsibility2nd
I stand corrected. I thought it was night time and she was on her way home from a friends house. I may be getting this one and the other little girl that was abducted out of her home in the Orlando area. That particular case stands out pretty strongly in my mind since I was in Orlando with my two daughters when that little girl was kidnapped.
It was February 1, so it was nearly dark at 6PM. Carlie called home right about 6PM and said she was walking home. It should have taken 5 minutes, so she was already 21 minutes from the time she called, approximately.
Had hoped to find a trial transcript somewhere, but I couldn't, in a quick search just now. I remember that Joseph Smith told his mother in the tapes where he confessed, that he didn't know Carlie or her family, but I can't find that in writing or testimony anywhere. I did find a mention of it by someone who heard it, too, but that was all.
Also, LE had been to Carlie's mom's house 69 times before Carlie's murder. I only saw three documented arrests of Susan previous to that, dating to 1995. I didn't remember that her mother had died right before the trial last year and then the stabbing of Susan's boyfriend at the time (the husband who had been Carlie's stepfather had moved out long before) and his near-death - that happened in the house where Susan lived, from which her mother had evicted her.
That's a bunch of B.S. The there is no concievable way I would let my 11 or 13 year old daughters be in a position to have to walk home at 11pm. The mother was probably strung out on crack and unable to protect her daughter adequately from the dangers of society. There's no excuse for her behavior, and was without a dought a contributing factor to her daughters demise. What kind of homelife did she have, what kind of values was she instilled with. Obviously her mother didn't care what time she came home.
She was an addict with an 11 year old. Chances are she was stoned or worrying too much about her next score to care where her daughter was. 11 year olds shouldn't go anywhere alone at any time of day!
What a messed up family! If there was a relationship between Smith and Carly's mother, it could explain a lot.
"I just wish the child could have had a stable, loving, two-parent home. From everything you read, it does not sound like she did. It may or may not have played a role in her killing, I don't know. Of course, no one is to blame for her murder other than the monster who did it, but I wish her time on earth had been a little more stable."
There's alot of kids who I wish had more stable lives.
Many adults are in over their heads, or so messed up with their own problems it is difficult for them to properly behave like adults.
But...from I'm reading about this case is that they knew where she was. She called them to let them know she was coming, and they judged the time it would take for her to arrive.
When she didn't arrive - they did what any parent would do and called the police.
This situation is typical of what would have happened in any household.
We really don't know what her home life was like. Obviously mom is troubled....but even troubled moms can express love and kindness to their children.
I think people can have a tendency to assume the worst - when they really don't know the whole story.
This is just human nature - when something so terrible happens I think people don't want to think it could happen to them - so they tend to find fault with the people who it happened to. That way they can feel more secure thinking..."it wouldn't happen to my daughter because....blah blah blah"
The problem with this story...is that this COULD have happened to anyone's daughter.
"She was an addict with an 11 year old. Chances are she was stoned or worrying too much about her next score to care where her daughter was. 11 year olds shouldn't go anywhere alone at any time of day!"
So..what you're really saying is that you don't have any idea what was really going on.
You think that saying "chances are" justifies assuming the worst?
I'm guessing that someone who is wigged out on crack isn't going to have the presence of mind to gage the time it would take for her daughter to walk a certain distance, and then have the presence of mind to quickly call the police.
Do you have an 11 yr. old?
If your 11 yr. old called you and asked to walk a few blocks - would you really tell them no?
When you were 11 did you ever go for walks or ride your bike?
"My guess is yes, and I doubt her parenting skills since Carly was not dressed appropriately for an 11 year old in the video when she was abducted. Joe Smith {the perp} had no prior history of raping or molesting children, so I have to wonder if Carly appeared as a typical 11 year old, instead of a 15 yr old, would Smith have passed her up?"
While you may not approve of her t-shirt and jeans....it is indeed a common outfit for 11 yr. old girls.
The monster who killed Carlie has a daughter Carlie's age, so he should have been able to recognize right away this was a young girl.
Besides, it doesn't matter if he thought she was 11, 15, or even an 18 year old hooker. His intention was to rape and kill no matter what brand of female was in his grasp.
I think I remember reading in a news article that Smith was living someone and was a viewer of porn.
There are alot of guys out there who did not have a tendency to molest children until they've gone down the demented road of porn.
Just look at David Westerfield -the killer of Danielle VanDamme.
Several moms on other forums had posted when this happened that their children knew Carlie and she was just the sweetest little girl - I recall that she had drawn a picture of a dolphin (I think it was) one time for a classmate friend who was feeling down.
Her mother and father divorced when she was 3 months old and she went to stay with her father in New York for 4 weeks every summer. From many accounts, Carlie had made the best of a bad situation and was a loving, caring young girl.
I don't know anything about her brother or even where he lives now, since he was taken away from Susan. I thought he lived with Susan's mother, but she died 4-5 months ago, so now I don't have any idea--maybe with the grandfather, Susan's father? The brother isn't a Brucia - he's the son of the most recent ex-husband of Susan.
Now that I think about it, it seems like Carlie's mom sent someone, a boyfriend maybe or the stepfather if he was still there, in the car to drive towards the area where she would be walking home, to meet her and pick her up - but Carlie said no, she wanted to walk.
Seems like the man in the story did start driving, anyway, and never found her, so they called right away. This is just a vague recollection.
6:00pm. But perhaps that doesn't matter to you. It doesn't seem unusual to me.
The mother was probably strung out on crack and unable to protect her daughter adequately from the dangers of society.
You're just making up your own facts, not in evidence.
There's no excuse for her behavior, and was without a dought a contributing factor to her daughters demise. What kind of homelife did she have, what kind of values was she instilled with. Obviously her mother didn't care what time she came home.
Yes, please keep blaming the victim, if it makes you feel better. Maybe she deserved it in some way. Why in the *world* is it so important to you that she deserved it?
I would prefer to blame the perpetrator.
Something deep down tells me that maybe a payment that had to be paid went awry?
I think if there were any relationship of the perp to the mom, it would have come out in court or otherwise. I'm not sure it would affect the way I think about the case anyway. I don't think killing a mom's children is an appropriate punishment for drug use.
I simply think that even if mom had some kind of drug problem at the time (which we don't know) it only magnifies the total tragedy and contributes in no way to the fact set. The perp kidnapped and killed the girl. I'm done at that point. Other family problems are just not relevant to me, unless it changes those facts.
"Do you have an 11 yr. old?" yes and a 13 year old
"If your 11 yr. old called you and asked to walk a few blocks - would you really tell them no? "
Uh, yes, I do it all the time. I go get her or my wife does. We live two blocks from her shool and either my wife or I drop her off or pick her up. Same goes with our thirteen year old. They are never out of our, a relative's, or a trusted adults sight....ever ever.
"When you were 11 did you ever go for walks or ride your bike?"
These are much different times than when I was eleven.
"Yes, please keep blaming the victim, if it makes you feel better. Maybe she deserved it in some way. Why in the *world* is it so important to you that she deserved it?"
Try and comprehend this. The victim was the little girl. The mother, whom is the subject of this article is not a victim. More than likely, her lifestyle, and the lifestyle she instilled in her daughter contributed to the little girls death.
I totally disagree with you on that. I don't think Susan's lifestyle contributed to Carlie's death at all. I think Joseph Smith's lifestyle had everything to do with it. Carlie could've been walking home from choir practice or Girl Scouts--as it was, it was an innocent sleepover with a friend.
What the two sets of parent/guardians at each house were doing had nothing to do with Smith being where he was and doing what he did.
I think many mothers might disagree about that.
the lifestyle she instilled in her daughter contributed to the little girls death
Facts not in evidence.
I'd like to back away a little from the emotionalism, if you'll indulge me.
Some people (not *you* specifically, but it happens here all the time) tend to blame the victim and the family of the victim as some kind of defense mechanism against horror. In thinking that they somehow brought it on themselves and "I wouldn't be so stupid" then it insulates us from being so personally threatened by the chaos around us.
If anything should relieve the sense of chaos it should be some other facts instead: DOJ Stats
Someone upthread, perhaps you, said something to the effect that "things just aren't the way they were when we were 11". This thinking is pressed into our collective conventional wisdom. It was true at one time, but in reality it isn't so true any more.
In fact, on many levels things are actually better. Violent crimes, particulary against women and girls, have been steadily falling for more than a decade. The only reason we *think* things are always getting worse is because we're assaulted daily by more and more reports like this in the media. They're happening less often, but being reported more often than ever. What was once a rare local story becomes aggregated into a frequent national story, and they always pick one to follow in excruciating detail at any given moment.
I got a little off topic here, but there is a relationship to how we analyze and cope with events around us... and why the frustration level gets so high especially here on FR where we immerse ourselves in 24 hour news. Maybe sometimes we need to step back away and get some perspective.
These days it is still normal for couples to hire 12 yr. olds to babysit their kids. The Red Cross offers babysitting certification to 12 yr. olds.
It doesn't seem unreasonable to allow an 11 yr. old to walk a few blocks, but I guess where you live can be a factor.
I have no problem where I live, but I wouldn't feel the same way in a big city.
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