Few drivers flexing cars' ethanol muscle

Rocky Mountain News ^ | 25 Feb 06 | Todd Hartman

[rellimpank]

Lack of marketing, few pumps lead to little demand

Alternative-fuel vehicles may seem futuristic, but in reality, hundreds of thousands of such cars are already on Colorado's roads. Many drivers just don't know they have one. About 300,000 so-called "flex- fuel" vehicles that run equally well on either gasoline or on a fuel made up of 85 percent ethanol, called E85, are zipping along the state's highways now, and more car buyers, sometimes unknowingly, purchase them all the time.

These aren't futuristic autos, with funny shapes or sleek designs. They're the pickups of General Motors and SUVs of Ford; they're town cars, wagons, minivans and sport coupes; they're even Mercedes-Benz luxury sedans.

[rellimpank]

--here we go again--

[thackney]

About 300,000 so-called "flex- fuel" vehicles that run equally well on either gasoline or on a fuel made up of 85 percent ethanol, called E85

I don't consider a 30% loss in mpg "equally well".

But Saab has found a way to take advantage of ethanol's higher-octane rating to improve performance, and the company put that to work on the 9-5 Aero BioPower Concept wagon shown here in L.A. You see, E85 comes in at 104 octane, and this allowed Saab engineers to advance the ignition timing and increase the turbo boost by 20 percent on the Saab 9-5's 2.3-liter, turbocharged four-cylinder engine. Hardware modifications include more durable valves and valve seats, and a modified fuel pump, tank and lines.

The result is 310 horsepower and 325 pound-feet of torque when the 9-5 BioPower runs on E85, compared to 260 hp and 258 lb-ft on gasoline. Additionally, the 9-5 wagon's 0-to-60-mph time drops from 6.9 seconds to 6 seconds flat.

"The 9-5 BioPower can also run on any mixture of ethanol and gasoline," said Jan-Willem Vester, corporate communications manager for Saab Cars USA. If you can't find a gas station with E85 on tap, you just fill up with the regular stuff and the engine management system adjusts the timing and boost accordingly.

"Mileage is approximately 30-percent worse on ethanol," Vester concedes, "but ethanol is typically 20-30 percent less expensive [at the pump], so for customers it's budget-neutral."

[SouthTexas]

Now the libs are confused on what is food and what is fuel.

[dhs12345]

I know. It sucks. My car tends to vapor lock on the mix. And it reduces my gas mileage and performance.

Interesting link (below). Shows how much less energy is in ethanol than gasoline. 1.5/1.4 gallons of ethanol to one gallon of gasoline.

http://www.nafa.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Resource_Center/Alternative_Fuels/Energy_Equivalents/Energy_Equivalents.htm

[FreePaul]

Between fifty and sixty years ago we ran two stroke cycle model engines on a mixture of methanol, nitromethane and castor oil. Really improved the performance. Probably couldn't get away with adding nitromethane to the current gasaholics but it might be fun.

[rellimpank]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1585365/posts

--related thread--

[Rick_Michael]

The whole 'go yellow, go green' campaign is a little short sighted. Ethanol will never be produced in quantities we need through corn; it will most likely happen through cellulosic feedstocks.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1570626/posts

[greasepaint]

does anyone know where I can find
gasoline terminal 'rack price',
for gasoline, ethanol.

also, commodity price for ethahol, is is traded
on some commodity exchange?

[SVTCobra03]

How can you tell if your car is "flex-fuel friendly"?

[rellimpank]

--owners manual--

[newgeezer]

"Mileage is approximately 30-percent worse on ethanol," Vester concedes, "but ethanol is typically 20-30 percent less expensive [at the pump], so for customers it's budget-neutral."

Here in the heart of Iowa, E85 is rare -- in the second-most populous county in the nation's leading corn- and ethanol-producing state, there's only one station, a farmers co-op -- and it's typically only 5¢ less than E10 (which is 10¢ less than straight gasoline).

In other words, those who search out and use E85 here are potentially paying a hefty premium to do so. However, some people swear their fuel mileage suffers little if any at all on the stuff.

At any rate, if I had a compatible vehicle, I'd be willing to give it a try.

[newgeezer]

http://www.e85.com

[SVTCobra03]

Thanks. It appears my vehicle is not on the list; but isnt it true that for modern engines all you need to do is reflash the chip in order to use E85?

[VOA]

bump

[festus]

At any rate, if I had a compatible vehicle, I'd be willing to give it a try.

There's a station selling the stuff nearby. I'm trying to figure out how to convert my vehicle to run the stuff and/or gas. Its looking like while technically its really quite simple but the damned EPA has made it illegal.

[festus]

Thanks. It appears my vehicle is not on the list; but isnt it true that for modern engines all you need to do is reflash the chip in order to use E85?

No.

Your gas seals and fuel pump will need to be changed out. Whiskey is in the tank will rot the seals out that are used for gasoline only. You will likely also need to add an sensor in the gas line to tell the new chip what % of whiskey is coming down the line so the motor can be tuned correctly for it on the fly.

An associate of mine with an old beater chevy blazer has been running 50/50 blends of e85/gas with no modification but I think he's asking for trouble.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Thanks. It appears my vehicle is not on the list; but isnt it true that for modern engines all you need to do is reflash the chip in order to use E85?

If I remember correctly, ethanol is corrosive, so even if you could alter the programming in your car, your engine certainly won't thank you for it.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

See Reply 17.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

An Energy Revolution

[festus]

See #16.

Those mods are pretty much all the manufacturers do differently in flex fuel vehicles and/or the ones they've been running for the last several years in south america on 100% whiskey.