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1 posted on 02/08/2006 6:18:21 PM PST by Stultis
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To: Dog; Dog Gone; hellinahandcart; sauropod; Peach

ping


2 posted on 02/08/2006 6:19:38 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Stultis

So Europe has all ready surrendered


3 posted on 02/08/2006 6:21:49 PM PST by MNJohnnie ("Vote Democrat-We are the party of reactionary inertia".)
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To: Stultis
From the Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/09/nhamz09.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/02/09/ixnewstop.html

CPS twice refused to prosecute Abu Hamza
By John Steele, Crime Correspondent and George Jones
(Filed: 09/02/2006)

Police twice formally asked prosecutors to consider terrorist charges against Abu Hamza in the seven years before he stood trial, it emerged yesterday as Tories called for a judicial inquiry into why he was not prosecuted earlier.

The Crown Prosecution Service twice decided there was "clearly insufficient" evidence to prosecute the radical Muslim cleric.

But the two "advice files" submitted by Scotland Yard to the CPS - in March 1999 and June 2003 - focused on suspected links between Hamza and Yemeni terrorists who kidnapped western hostages, killing four, including three Britons, in December 1998.

Police did not send the CPS any copies of inflammatory speeches by Hamza, which they seized in 1999 in their Yemen inquiry but handed back to him, and which subsequently formed the basis of charges on which he was convicted this week.

Nor, according to admissions agreed between the Crown and Hamza's lawyers in his trial, was Hamza questioned about the speeches in 1999.

Anti-terrorist sources have admitted that the question of whether Hamza's hate-filled rants amounted to criminal offences was not high among police priorities in 1999.

The second formal advice file, in June 2003, was the result of a review of the first Scotland Yard Yemen inquiry of 1999, and included material from a Hamza-linked website which allegedly showed his support for the kidnappers.

Last night, the Tories said a judge should be asked to find out why it took so long to prosecute 47-year-old Hamza.

David Davis, the Conservative home affairs spokesman, said it appeared that the only reason that charges of inciting murder and racial hatred were brought was because the United States had sought Hamza's extradition in 2004.

The Americans want him to face trial over his alleged conspiracy with the Yemeni kidnappers. US citizens were among the hostages.

It is understood that Lord Goldsmith, the Attorney General, made clear to police and prosecutors in 2004 - as the controversy over the suspects held by the US in Guantanmo Bay went on - that he would prefer a trial of Hamza in Britain, if the evidence justified it.

The Tories also want to know whether the police and security services were hampered by a lack of will in the Government to tackle Islamic extremism in "Londonistan".

Police have pointed out that dissident Irish terrorism was still the major threat at that time.

A joint statement yesterday by the CPS and Scotland Yard made clear that Hamza was eventually prosecuted on a third "advice file" from police which centred on recordings of inflammatory speeches inciting followers to kill Jews and non-believers, which was sent to the CPS "in batches" from 2003 onwards.

The CPS eventually decided to prosecute him in October 2004, by which time he was in custody on the US extradition warrant. The material in the Old Bailey trial came from three police seizures - two in police anti-terror operations 2003 and a third in May 2004 - when Hamza was arrested on the US extradition warrant and his home was searched. The collection of speeches and "sermons" included those handed back to him in 1999.

As well as the submission of the three formal "advice files", it is understood that informal legal advice was sought by police on whether Hamza's rabble-rousing speeches on the street outside Finsbury Park Mosque - from which he was ousted in January 2003 - amounted to criminal activity.

It is understood the advice was that these "sermons" did not reach the threshold for a criminal prosecution. Sources said there were problems with obtaining accurate records of the words said and proof that he said them.

In the joint statement yesterday, Sue Hemming, the head of the CPS's counter-terrorist division, and deputy assistant commissioner Peter Clarke, the head of Scotland Yard anti-terrorist branch, said: "The submissions relating to the Yemen and website allegations were carefully and thoroughly reviewed by experienced senior prosecutors and in both cases there was clearly insufficient evidence for a prosecution."

When the third, speech-related, file was submitted, "there was sufficient evidence and the case has been prosecuted successfully".

Some reports have claimed Hamza was an influence on the July 7 suicide bombers. However, Scotland Yard said there was no evidence for this.

Tony Blair yesterday demanded that the Tories drop their opposition to proposed new laws banning the glorification of terrorism. He told the Commons that the vast majority of Muslims in Britain "completely abhor" protests glorifying violence. Mr Davis challenged No 10's claims that adequate laws were not available to prosecute those inciting murder or racial hated. He said six of Abu Hamza's convictions were under the 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, three under the 1986 Public Order Act and only the least important charge was under the Terror Act 2000.

4 posted on 02/08/2006 6:23:21 PM PST by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: Stultis
Some of the rivals were beaten up inside their own mosques, and worshippers were bullied into finding somewhere else to pray — but police refused to intervene.

Amazing

5 posted on 02/08/2006 6:25:43 PM PST by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: Stultis

Infighting now. Get the popcorn.


6 posted on 02/08/2006 6:36:50 PM PST by sarasota
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To: Stultis
Further evidence that Islam has become a gangland cult - run in large measure by hateful, murderous bastards who are unashamed to declare their goal -- our destruction.

We now have "Nation" targets to attack - just as soon as we really get serious about the war on Terror.

Semper Fi
9 posted on 02/08/2006 6:43:03 PM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: Stultis
'A number were killed in fighting or suicide attacks, but most have disappeared.'

Thank-you Marines!

Semper Fi

10 posted on 02/08/2006 6:44:03 PM PST by bubman
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To: Stultis
Abu Hamza boasted about his heavy-handed tactics, saying: “If the people know you are firm, they will back down. They all back down.”

Words to remember.

13 posted on 02/08/2006 7:34:06 PM PST by lowbridge (All that is needed for evil to triumph is for "RINOS" to do something)
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To: Stultis

bttt


16 posted on 02/08/2006 7:47:30 PM PST by nopardons
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To: Stultis
When our US Justice system finally gets our hands on this Abu Hamza critter, we need to sentence him a punishment so severe that Europe sensibilities will be thrown for a loop. Then we need to widely display the pictures of the supermax prison we bury him under.

Presuming he's found guilty, of course.

18 posted on 02/08/2006 7:51:24 PM PST by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi!)
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