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To: dervish
I'm very serious.

The death penalty is applied only very rarely and only for DELIBERATE acts of killing.

Quite true. However, I believe the death penalty is applied far too seldom. I would prefer laws where the death penalty was the default punishment for murder, with mitigation in unusual circumstances, rather than the present situation where the death penalty requires special circumstances.

In fact, I think many, though not all, of the punishments for crime prescribed in the Mosaic Law would be more effective and actually merciful than those we use today. For example, I know I would absolutely prefer to be flogged for a relatively minor crime and spend a week in the hospital recovering than be locked up with the scum of the universe for a year. I suspect such a punishment would be a far more effective deterrent than our present system.

The Talmud explains that it is a Tort concept of financial value. Thus a person who loses an eye is entitled to the monetary equivalent based on lost earnings, pain and suffering, etc.

If so, all crimes against persons could be settled by paying the equivalent of a fine, making it similar to our present civil justice system rather than our criminal system. This inherently means wealthy persons could commit crimes with essential impunity. I fail to see why you consider this system morally superior.

It is also a fact that the Talmud was not developed until centuries, perhaps as much as a thousand years, after the Mosaic Law. You can interpret the Law in the light of the Talmud, if you wish. I suspect that the Talmud often attempts to circumvent the pretty clear language of the Law.

For instance, the conversion of all penalties for crimes against persons into monetary penalties would certainly be very much in the interests of the wealthy, who often had great influence among the rabbis, at least according to one Jesus of Nazareth.

13 posted on 12/26/2005 10:13:31 AM PST by Restorer
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To: Restorer

"It is also a fact that the Talmud was not developed until centuries, perhaps as much as a thousand years, after the Mosaic Law. You can interpret the Law in the light of the Talmud, if you wish. I suspect that the Talmud often attempts to circumvent the pretty clear language of the Law. "

Not according to Orthodox beliefs. The Talmud is the written codification of the Oral, what you call Mosaic, Law. Oral Law was handed down at Sinai together with the written law. It has the same force as the written law and the written law can not be understood without it. The Oral and written law are integral and the word of God. That is the core belief of Orthodox Jews.

"For instance, the conversion of all penalties for crimes against persons into monetary penalties would certainly be very much in the interests of the wealthy, who often had great influence among the rabbis, at least according to one Jesus of Nazareth."

It is widely misunderstood that the wealthy Jews were the legalistic Pharisees. In fact there were two groups. The Saducees were the wealthy High Priests who had adopted Roman ways. The Pharisees were not wealthy but were observers of the Oral Law considered legalistic (a derisive term as applied by Christians). The surviving Jews of today are descendants of Pharisees.

Crimes are crimes and torts are civil even where people are injured. Our legal system rightly considers the intent or the accidental nature of acts. I never meant to suggest that there are no criminal peanlties under Jewish law. An eye for an eye arises in the non-criminal context.

Even in crime some outcomes are accidental and can not be fairly attributed to intentional acts deserving of severe criminal penalties. An exception to this would be the felony murder rule. However even there "the felony must present a forseeable danger to life, and the link between the underlying felony and the death must not be too remote. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder

"This inherently means wealthy persons could commit crimes with essential impunity."

The same applies to criminal trials today where OJ can pay for an array of lawyers to get him off. I am not in favor of widespread use of the death penalty although I am not opposed to all use of it.

I see the goal of the criminal justice system as one of keeping criminals, especially violent ones, off the street. I would treat rescidivists very harshly.


14 posted on 12/26/2005 10:44:00 AM PST by dervish (no excuses)
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