$2.9 Billion Solar Roofs Program Proposed For California

Environment California ^ | December 13, 2005

[SampleMan]

for every megawatt of solar power installed, up to 7 jobs are created, a 7-fold increase over the number of jobs created from building the equivalent capacity in natural gas power plants

And if they dug canals with teaspoons, millions of jobs could be created. In the rest of the universe, this is known as inefficiency.

[Uncledave]

Batteries of some sort will be needed to store the electricity.

You only need batteries if you're not tied to the main grid - say in a remote cabin. Residential systems are typically tied to the grid via an inverter. Power generated by the system during the day when you're at work is put on the grid (spinning your meter backwards), then you draw off the grid when you get home and the sun is down.

Some folks on the grid want a battery back up in case the grid goes down, but that's a very small part of the market.

[calcowgirl]

Thats only in a stand-alone setup. What China and Germany are doing is tying into the "grid". You sometimes put in more than you use and then take out when the cell's aren't providing enough. Actually works well.

It sounds like the current plan (bypassing the legislature) is for stand alone setups.
From the Contra Costa Times article, included in Post#2 above:

The new plan would not include requirements that new-home builders install solar energy units and that utilities buy excess power from home and business solar units. Those measures would require legislation.

[SampleMan]

The absolute most efficient household solar power available has nothing to do with electricity. Heat collection boxes for hot water is the best bang for the buck and amazingly low tech. Works great in sunny climes, such as southern Cal. They they want to do something meaningful, they would require these on new homes or when a new waterheater is purchased.

[daviddennis]

Dog Gone, I can't let you miss this one!

I'm curious about this, though. Normally systems like the ones described would be purchased personally by individuals and the benefits would be given to them. So if I put a solar panel on my roof, I own the power coming from it, and can then sell it back to the utility, store it in batteries or use it myself.

If that's so, this seems like a huge subsidy to people who will just take the power and laugh all the way to the bank, without actually helping their fellow ratepayers.

If not, it seems like putting useless panels on people's roofs and then taking the power without any compensation would be a plan only a bureaucrat could love.

I know that some people in really out of the way areas can be self-sufficient in power from solar panels. This site, while chaotic, has the facts. Apparently if you just buy an expensive special 12v refrigerator, cook with gas and don't use an air conditioner, self-sufficiency is possible.

I'm not convinced it's cost-effective for most of the US, or that this idea isn't a bit premature.

D

[nuke rocketeer]

You got that right! This program will also cost more than $2.9 Billion, by the time it's over. And the people who put the PV panels on their roofs will have to pony up the cost of the panels and get a rebate for PART of the cost. I also disagree with the job creation part of the article. That is a crock of pure bull crap. It does not consider the jobs created by turbine, pump, electrical components, piping, labor contractor and engineering companies. Given the capital equipment needed to build a steam or combined cycle power plant vs the fabrication and silicon production plants, electrical component (much fewer than conventional plant, mostly inverters)and the enginering and labor contractors needed for a PV panel installation on a single rooftop. In fact, the engineering necessary is minimal.

It would be nice if the press would give these claims a tenth of the investigation they give to any political claims by or against conservatives, but I know it is just wishful thinking.

[calcowgirl]

Excellent point. I missed that comment in the article.

[tubebender]

And if they dug canals with teaspoons, millions of jobs could be created. In the rest of the universe, this is known as inefficiency.

You Got It...Great Post!!! ROTFLMAO...

[MaDeuce]

Why this is all a scheme by BIG SOLAR to rape the rate payer and line the pockets of BIG SOLAR executives!!!!

[KC_for_Freedom]

A friend in CA recently put a bank of solar cells in his back yard. Not on the roof because down low he can clean them when they get dirty. (good idea)

He feels very cool indeed when at peak solar time with little energy use in his house, he can watch his electric meter turn backwards. (He recovers these costs, but saves even when the meter turns forward if his solar system helps in his home use of power.)

At the rate this system works, (and sorry, I do not know if there are batteries), he said it would take about 40 years to break even. He will sell the house before then but it should be a sales gimick if he sells to someone as concerned as he. He may or may not recover the cost when he sells. But he did this without a subsidy, so I credit him with being an honest lefty.

[Amerigomag]

This proposal for incentives to install stand alone, solar systems linked to energy saving, structure modifications is controversial but it has one, unique aspect that separates it from the rest and meets with my approval.

It's a redistribution of wealth scheme that moves money from the unproductive lower class to the productive middle class. The poor, who already enjoy subsidized rates far in excess of the benefits this proposal provides, will be required to return a fraction of that largess to their principal benefactors.

[SierraWasp]

Well, MaDuce, I don't know about BIG SOLAR, but I do know about one GIGANTIC BS'er and it's Cauleeforneeah's GangGreenGubernutter, Arnold SchwartzenRenegger!!!

He's lining up to line his pockets with this as soon as he leaves public life and CA in a turmoil!!!

I hear tell he already owns one of what you're describing as "BIG SOLAR!!!"

[GSlob]

I remember reading of somebody who had a solar concentrating reflector shining upon some specialty cells which could work at high temperatures. Obviously these were more expensive but then he did not need very many panels. Besides he probably could back those with water cooling coils and get hot water as a bonus.

[SierraWasp]

"All environmental advocay groups are intensely politically partisan."

Your comments in that reply are so apropos and should be stated even more emphatically... if possible!!!

[SierraWasp]

"Today’s proposal comes at the request of Governor Schwarzenegger and mirrors the bulk of the Governor-backed Million Solar Roofs bill (SB 1), which was also broadly support by the state Legislature."

EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!!EXCUSE ME GOVERNOR SCHWARTZENEGGER!!!

That's NOT why we elected you!!! Gray Davis was a GangGreenGovernor! That's NOT WHAT YOUR MISSION WAS TO BE!!!

[editor-surveyor]

" this program has the potential to make California the Saudi Arabia of solar power.”

Let me guess; they've discovered a silicon mine full of 'intelligent' silicon that grows it's own panels?

All this program can do is inflate the cost of solar hardware more than it already is. We've had this before, and that is exactly what happened.

[calcowgirl]

It's a redistribution of wealth scheme that moves money from the unproductive lower class to the productive middle class. The poor, who already enjoy subsidized rates far in excess of the benefits this proposal provides, will be required to return a fraction of that largess to their principal benefactors.

I'm not following you on the redistribution. It sounded like the poor would be unaffected.

From the highlights listed at the end of the article:

• Creation of $2.9 billion fund will come from existing program as well as a new surcharge of .002 - .009 cents per kilowatt hour. The PUC expects these additional costs to be absorbed in current rates without any increase to monthly bills.
• Low-income ratepayers will not pay into the fund at all.
• 10% of the fund will be set aside for low-income and affordable housing projects.

Ahhh... maybe I get it now. If they install the solar on low-income and affordable housing projects, right?

[editor-surveyor]

"I guess that doesn't matter, as long as they all feel good and the taxpayers foot the bill.

That clause covers just about everything going on in California today.

[calcowgirl]

LOL. I wonder what they mean by broad support.

..."broadly support by the state Legislature."

I guess they mean broad DEMOCRAT support, based on the September vote in the Assembly:

MEASURE:   SB 1
AUTHOR:    Murray
TOPIC:     Electricity: renewable energy resources: Mill
DATE:      09/02/2005
LOCATION:  ASM. FLOOR
MOTION:    SB1 Murray  Senate Third Reading  By Levine  Amendment  Set #1
(AYES  42. NOES  30.)  (PASS)


AYES

Baca             Bass          Berg             Bermudez
Calderon         Canciamilla   Chan             Chavez
Chu              Cohn          Coto             De La Torre
Evans            Frommer       Goldberg         Hancock
Jerome Horton    Karnette      Klehs            Koretz
Laird            Leno          Levine           Lieber
Liu              Montanez      Nation           Nava
Negrete McLeod   Oropeza       Parra            Pavley
Ridley-Thomas    Ruskin        Saldana          Salinas
Torrico          Umberg        Vargas           Wolk
Yee              Nunez


NOES

Aghazarian       Benoit        Blakeslee        Bogh
Cogdill          Daucher       DeVore           Emmerson
Harman           Haynes        Shirley Horton   Houston
Huff             Keene         La Malfa         La Suer
Leslie           Maze          McCarthy         Nakanishi
Niello           Plescia       Richman          Sharon Runner
Spitzer          Strickland    Tran             Villines
Walters          Wyland


     ABSENT, ABSTAINING, OR NOT VOTING
Arambula         Dymally       Garcia           Jones
Matthews         Mountjoy      Mullin           Vacancy

[NormsRevenge]

All this program can do is inflate the cost of solar hardware more than it already is. We've had this before, and that is exactly what happened.

---

per a recent trade mission where he was accompanied by his new energy czar, tamminen, and his horde of green business folks and supporters, China may be where they can manufacture it cheap in bulk, thus trying to overcome cost hurdles. but we won't worry about quality control or little details like that.

Of course, the fact he had his blind trust manager along as well on the trade mission, oh never mind. He has a vision(s), yaknow.