Compromise reached on weapons bill (WI)

Pioneer Press ^ | Nov. 30, 2005 | TODD RICHMOND

[neverdem]

Associated Press

Change satisfies law enforcement agencies' concern about guns during vehicle stops

MADISON, Wis. — Police could check whether the owner of a car they stop is carrying a concealed weapon under a compromise that sponsors of a bill to let Wisconsin residents carry hidden weapons have reached with law enforcement groups.

Sponsors say the amendment eliminates police lobbying organizations' major hang-ups with the Republican-authored bill. The bill's authors and representatives of several law enforcement groups planned a press conference this morning to announce more details.

"This was the biggest issue for law enforcement," said Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, one of the bill's authors. "We've been working with law enforcement throughout the process to really bring them on board."

Under the measure, whenever an officer runs the registration of a vehicle he stops, a screen would pop up alerting him if the owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, said Casey Perry, executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association.

"This way we would know before we approach the vehicle," Perry said. "We think it's a safety issue for the people that we stop, as well as the officers. It is major because it's a deal breaker for us."

The bill's creators have insisted the list of permit holders remain secret to ensure criminals don't prey on people who aren't carrying. Police groups say that would put officers in danger.

Perry said under the amendment, any officer caught running registrations excessively to find out who has permits — verified through state Department of Justice records that track the number of times an officer runs a registration — would be charged with a misdemeanor.

Gunderson said police associations added the language for the misdemeanor charge into the bill themselves.

"This is a compromise. I just feel it's important that if we're going to make this thing work, law enforcement has to be on board," Gunderson said.

The bill, the subject of a fierce debate at the Capitol, would allow Wisconsin residents who pass firearms training and obtain permits to carry concealed handguns, knives and billy clubs in most public places. The few exceptions include schools, taverns and police stations.

The GOP, pushed by National Rifle Association lobbyists, passed similar legislation in 2003, saying people should be allowed to shoot criminals who attack them.

Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle vetoed it, saying the measure would jeopardize police officers' lives and allow guns in malls and libraries. The Republican-controlled Legislature fell short of overriding Doyle in early 2004.

Identical versions of the current bill are moving through both the Republican-controlled Senate and Assembly. The Joint Finance Committee was scheduled to take them up today.

Doyle spokeswoman Melanie Fonder said the permit-alert system won't persuade the governor to sign the bill.

"It doesn't change the fact the governor doesn't think people should be carrying weapons around," Fonder said.

[Emmett McCarthy]

I hate to see the various compromises going on, but whatever's necessary to shove Doyle's veto where the sun don't shine is OK with me.

On the few occasions where I have been pulled over by a cop, I keep my hands in view, advise him that my permit is in my wallet and that my firearm is on my hip. I do that for MY protection because I don't want him to find out by surprise and possibly draw down on me out of an unfounded fear. As for the cops, it's not folks who are legally armed that they need to be worrying about.

[John O]

The few exceptions include schools, taverns and police stations.

That's like half of Wisconsin isn't it? (3/4ths in Cudahy)

[Atlas Sneezed]

Under the measure, whenever an officer runs the registration of a vehicle he stops, a screen would pop up alerting him if the owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, said Casey Perry, executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association.

---

I guess those from out of state, or who are smart enough to have their cars registered to an LLC (preferably out of state) will have all the privacy they need, and won't have to worry about ignorant cops getting twitchy.

[rellimpank]

--The GOP, pushed by National Rifle Association lobbyists, passed similar legislation in 2003, saying people should be allowed to shoot criminals who attack them.--

--no agenda in that statement, is there?

[E. Pluribus Unum]

"This way we would know before we approach the vehicle," Perry said. "We think it's a safety issue for the people that we stop, as well as the officers. It is major because it's a deal breaker for us."

Not that facts matter to ignoramuses, but CCW-holders have a lower rate of criminal conduct than law officers and clergymen, to name just a couple of categories of potential criminals.

[SmithL]

That's how I remember Kenosha. But then my memories date back to my days at Great Lakes, and Kenosha was the closest town that allowed 18-year-olds to drink.

[stocksthatgoup]

Doyle vetoed photo ID for voting but has required photo ID for purchasing cold medicine. Our Gov is bot and paid for by Casino, Trial Lawyers, Teachers Unions and the loony left.

[Eagle Eye]

If a cop knows he's pulling over a CC permit holder, all he knows is he's pulling over someone who took the time to be legal and is less likely than others to misuse his gun.

How do the cops in Florida survive day to day not knowing if a car has a gun in it?

Drivers can carry in their vehicles without a permit.

[July 4th]

Under the measure, whenever an officer runs the registration of a vehicle he stops, a screen would pop up alerting him if the owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon

And thereby giving the officer some sort of license to be a hardass to the driver, and request a search of the vehicle.

[Stump]

This way the cop can disarm you for the duration of the stop.....for safety reasons. Gee, I wonder if we can insist that the cop be disarmed, too? A significant number of people have been shot by cops!

[Ladysmith]

Man, they sure have this backwarks. LEO are going to have a lot less to fear with those who show up on their system as CCW carriers. CCW carriers are statistically less likely to break the CCW laws or pose any threats to LEO.

But, hey, if this will help pass the PPA, I can accept this compromise.

"It doesn't change the fact the governor doesn't think people should be carrying weapons around," Fonder said.

Like we expect him to sign it into law... *snort!*

We're gunning for a successful override.

[faloi]

Thankfully, in Texas anyway, police tend to be much more respectful of people with their CCL. Police do know when they pull your license (not as sure about registration) whether you've got a CCL or not. We were advised that, while it's not required if you're not carrying at the time, you always should tell the officer and tell him the status of any weapons you might or might not have with you.

Possession of the license shows someone who was willing to go through a process to prove that you should be permitted to have that permit. Part of that process ensures you have a clean criminal record, and no history of other problems. All in all, good insurance for the police.

[mcshot]

You would think that the driver having a permit would be comforting rather than alarming. I have a friend who was pulled over and the LEOs really got dramatic when told there was a pistol on board - in the trunk even.
I feel more comfortable having citizens armed that some LEOs I've seen.

mc

[Ladysmith]

Ping to WI CCW article.

[basil]

Has anyone counted up the number of INFRINGEMENTS in this claptrap of a law?

Lordy, how much longer are we going to put up with this? I think it would be interesting if some statistician somewhere would compile a list of all the laws on the books in the USA that are pure infringements of the Second Amendment. My guess would be that the list would probably circle the globe a time or two.

[Groganeer]

Used to do the same thing. As a matter of courtesy to someone tasked with doing what can be a difficult job. As often as I used to interact with LE Os (working outside at night in weird places) it was never a problem, and they generally seemed pleased that I told them up front.

Then one day I got hauled out of my truck and treated like a criminal because I let the officer know I was legally armed. I was disarmed, frisked, forced to stand in "the position" while all my DL/CCW/DMV paperwork was run through the system. 30 minutes of standing in the rain convinced me that courtesy was obviously a one way street.

If they ask I'll let them know my status, otherwise I volunteer nothing.

[ZULU]

"Under the measure, whenever an officer runs the registration of a vehicle he stops, a screen would pop up alerting him if the owner has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, said Casey Perry, executive director of the Wisconsin Troopers Association.

"This way we would know before we approach the vehicle," Perry said. "We think it's a safety issue for the people that we stop, as well as the officers. It is major because it's a deal breaker for us."

Makes sense to me. That way the police will know if a criminal was stupid enough to apply for and receive a concealed carry permit.

[Ladysmith]

Yeah, they bite. But they're nothing compared to the Big One we have right now.

[tumblindice]

"Whut? 'scuse me ossifer, while I whup this out . . "
http://tombstonearms.com/WASR-10.html