Posted on 10/28/2005 2:11:25 PM PDT by Crackingham
The man had been attending a Methodist church in South Hill, Va., for several months. He sang in the choir. He owned a business and was well known in the community. But when he asked to become a formal member of the church, the pastor turned him down, because he is gay.
Those are the bare facts of a case that has split a 650-member congregation in southern Virginia and that threatens to divide the 8 million-member United Methodist Church, the nation's second largest Protestant denomination.
Yesterday in Houston, the Methodists' highest court heard an appeal from the pastor of South Hill United Methodist Church, the Rev. Edward Johnson. He was placed on unpaid leave after he rejected entreaties from his immediate supervisor and his bishop to admit the gay man, who has not been named by church officials and has declined to talk about the case.
Nationally, the Methodist Church prohibits "self-avowed, practicing homosexuals" from serving as ordained ministers. But it has declared that gay men and lesbians are "persons of sacred worth" and has repeatedly said there are no bars to their participation as lay people.
"The theme of our church for five years now has been 'Open Hearts. Open Minds. Open Doors.' The issue here is, 'Are we really open or not?' " said the Rev. W. Anthony Layman, who was Johnson's district superintendent when the pastor was removed in June by a 581 to 20 vote of fellow ministers in the church's Virginia conference.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
The rabbi is not attempting to be a member of the church, right? Admits to not being a member and is not trying to pass himself off as one? These aren't even comparable cases.
Gluttony isn't the subject of the dietary laws; disease is. Meanwhile male homosexuality is explicitly part of the sexual laws, and it was important enough to be mentioned twice in a very short span (Lev 18:22, 20:13). A sin of commission is generally considered to be a greater sin than a sin of omission.
Baloney. If a would-be member is in your face with their sinfulness and is unrepentant, kick them out. They have no place. Someone who is not in your face at least exhibits the possibility of knowing they need to change.
I didn't read anything to the effect that this particular person was in anyone's face.
So show us where God assigns the penalty of death for dietary laws as He does for homosexuality in Leviticus?
All sins are NOT equal according to God as determined by His penalties for violation of law in the scripture.
But I do agree that to prohibit sinners from the church would mean all churches would be empty.
Should we assign point values to sins like envy or anger or sloth and what about pride? Is pride in one’s work not a sin but pride in one’s hobbies a small sin?
I'm not sure your idea of stack ranking sins is workable.
Some sins have cachet, and some are rather ignored, it just depends on your crowd. It is a cultural affect.
Amen brother.
Well at least you're not afflicted with humility or loving your neighbor and leaving the judgements to God & St. Peter.
And what was that example. The story of the woman taken in adultery tells us where he stood. "Go and sin no more." I assume you do not regard sodomy as a sin.
I am far from a liberal. I just dont condemn homosexuals to not be allowed to practice a religion because they are sick. I condemn their sin not the sinner.As I stated I dont want them as priests or preachers but how can you condemn them for wanting to be a lay person. Thats not a pun by the way. Being homosexual doesnt mean they are bad people just sick people.
Do you think you are free of sin?
No. Because not all fat people are gluttons.
I went from 130 to 195 lbs in my mid 40's eating virtually the same amount of food. It was disgusting, but it was due to metabolism not gluttony.
I've had to increase exercise and eat less to get back down to 150 lbs.
So I don't agree that all fat people are gluttons.
Uh, no. The problem is what to do with public sinners. Back in the 11th Century, a king of France take a noble man's wife away from him. A local bishop excommunicated him and was backed up by the pope. The king finally had to do public penance and agree to give up the woman.
Assuming you are talking about sinners who are not subject to prosecution under the law, I assume that those who are without sin are eligible to judge them.
Do you think God hates the theft, but loves the thief. Does He abhor adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. What you believe is pure nonsense and not biblical FRiend. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not just the act but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent be in open rebellion against his God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger.
God is angry with the wicked (Psalm 7:11), not with the abstract sin. If the wicked do not turn from their sin they will be condemned.
By definition all fat people are over-cosuming gluttons, but, despite the time spent on it, this is not my main point.
My point has more to do with the mote in the other fellow's eyes and the beams in our own. Homosexuals are not the only persistant and unrepentent sinners among us under the laws of Christianity nor even the most common. Anger, envy, sloth and all the rest are all too common and it is, I believe, a defensive reaction to focus on the homosexual while ignoring the sins a whole lot closer to home. Perhaps even as close as our own bellies.
Absolute BS. You have no idea what you're talking about and I ALREADY proved it with testimony of my personal experience.
I can't believe you think you have some holy directive to label all over-weight people as sinners guilty of gluttony. You're wrong.
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