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Grim Iraq reality dawns for Bush
Washington Post, via The Standard (Hong Kong) ^ | August 16, 2005 | Robin Wright and Ellen Knickmeyer

Posted on 08/16/2005 7:13:40 AM PDT by Brigadier

``We set out to establish a democracy, but we're slowly realizing we will have some form of Islamic republic,'' said another US official familiar with policymaking from the beginning.

(Excerpt) Read more at thestandard.com.hk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: antisemite; bastards; bitterpaleos; buchananite; bush; cheney; closetleftists; dumbass; ezrapoundbrigade; fools; handwringers; idiots; jewhater; lewserbrigade; lordhawhawbrigade; morons; nitwits; peaceniks; perle; raimondobrigade; scumbags; sobranbrigade; tokyorosebrigade; traitors; warmongers; williamjoycebrigade; wlofowitz; wolfowitz
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To: roses of sharon; SuziQ

Joe Biden is saying almost the very same thing, word for word, on MSNBC this very second.


61 posted on 08/16/2005 8:20:06 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: Dark Skies
Regardless of Kemal's brutality, Turkey today is a democracy, and is islamist, proving that the two are not incompatible. As others have mentioned, Indonesia is moving in that direction as well. It is difficult, but not impossible for democracy and islam to coexist. What is impossible is for democracy and militant islam to coexist.

Pakistan is another islamic country that, while not a perfect democracy, has had free elections.

62 posted on 08/16/2005 8:20:08 AM PDT by XJarhead
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To: Texas_Conservative2

Amen and Ditto.


63 posted on 08/16/2005 8:20:47 AM PDT by marty60
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To: Brigadier
Unintended consequences are a b***h. But at least no Neocons had to die...

Brigadier

Okay the hilalry/richardson/napolitano big lie on immigration hasn't worked so you all in hillary's basement go back to the old hillary/buchanan/ cindy sheehan/fred phelps/david duke standby of 'neo-con'.

Nuff said.

64 posted on 08/16/2005 8:21:07 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: veronica
Wake up. They were there before, they are everwhere in the slum known as the Arab ME. We just turned on the lights and the roaches scurried into it.

Well if that is true, now there are MORE of them, killing the civilians in Iraq and OUR American boys.

We have not done ONE thing to prevent terrorist acts,( look at England ).

65 posted on 08/16/2005 8:22:07 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: RnMomof7
Yea well he could only rape one woman at a time. (if it was ever even true)

Holy cow.

I think you need to talk to some Iraqis that can attest to the horror they experienced during Saddam's regime.

Unbelievable!!!!!
66 posted on 08/16/2005 8:22:47 AM PDT by Mrs.Nooseman
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To: RnMomof7

Yes, I heard that the children their flew kites and went to the county fair too!!!

Utopia!


67 posted on 08/16/2005 8:22:50 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: RnMomof7
Yea well he could only rape one woman at a time (if it was ever even true).

So you deny, then, that Saddam had a brutal and dictatorial regime? Perhaps you would be better suited over at DU.

During one of my husband's deployments in Iraq, he was provided with a tour of one of Uday's palaces that had never been looted. It came complete with gilded doors, crystal chandeliers, and a wall stacked with $3,000 bottles of wine. My husband and his guide happened into a room stacked with boxes of stereo systems. When asked what was their purpose, the guide replied that they were consolation prizes for the woman who were forced to satisfy the lustful urges of Uday and his friends. I guess you think a stereo is just compensation for gang rape.

68 posted on 08/16/2005 8:24:11 AM PDT by The Phantom FReeper (So? People in Hell want ice water.)
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To: RnMomof7
They did not have Fundamentalist terrorists running through their streets killing innocent men , women and children.

Saddam and Sons, Inc, did far worse than that. Maybe you should ask the Iraqis if they would rather still be under Saddam's rule.

As for the terrorists in their country, many (if not most) of them are Syrian, Iranian, Saudi, etc.

69 posted on 08/16/2005 8:25:26 AM PDT by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: RnMomof7
...civilians in Iraq and OUR American boys.

Your condescension toward our service members rivals that of Cindy Sheehan. Our service members are not "boys." They are grown men (and women) who made a willful decision.

70 posted on 08/16/2005 8:26:44 AM PDT by The Phantom FReeper (So? People in Hell want ice water.)
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To: Mrs.Nooseman
Saddam killed millions of his own people and tortured and raped thousands of his own people and they were better of with him....Yeah right.

The population of Iraq is under 25 million and Saddam killed MILLIONS . How many MILLIONS ? That kind of exaggeration does not lead to a thoughtful examination of what we have done and what we need to do .

71 posted on 08/16/2005 8:26:52 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: Brigadier
Just wanted to rub the noses of the Neocons in the mess they've made at the cost of thousands of lives.

Yeah, we'd all be better off with Saddam Hussein in power sending $25K checks to Palestinian homocide bombers, murdering his people by the hundreds and thousands, reaping billions$ through the UN oil-for-bribes, rebuilding his WMD program once the limp UNSC members voted to remove sanctions, continuing to allow terrorists to hang out and train in Iraq, etc.

And who cares if the troops in Iraq say that what they're doing is worth it.

We should have also let Hitler keep Europe and Japan keep Asia. Or maybe we should have let China keep the Korean penninsula, or all of SE Asia, and the Soviet Union take and keep most of Central America.

72 posted on 08/16/2005 8:27:18 AM PDT by DTogo (U.S. out of the U.N. & U.N out of the U.S.)
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To: APRPEH

My proof will be that Iraq won't disintegrate into a civil war. That Iraqis consider themselves Iraqi, and identify themselves as such. My proof is that we frequently hear anti-occupation sentiments refer to Iraq as their country. My proof is that we hear pro-coalition statements from Iraqis who refer to the mission as necessary to providing the stability "their country" needs to get back on its feet.

They refer to their country, and to themselves as its citizens.

Yes, there are factions that consider themselves Sunni or Shia, and the whole of the Middle East as their Empire, but these have already been noted to be a minority of Muslim extremists who still live in the past on the imaginary glories of their empire.

Do we really need to question their nationalism any further? When I see pictures of and hear about Iraqi citizens forming up long lines to become police men and women, and the same to join their new military, I don't sit here and think that they're doing so for their long lost Islamic Empire. No, I sit here and think that these men and women are joining up because they feel the call to join their fellow Iraqis in ensuring their domestic security and tranquility.


73 posted on 08/16/2005 8:28:00 AM PDT by coconutt2000 (NO MORE PEACE FOR OIL!!! DOWN WITH TYRANTS, TERRORISTS, AND TIMIDCRATS!!!! (3-T's For World Peace))
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To: Howlin
Very predictable.

The US cannot win, never.

And the Dems don't lose either.
74 posted on 08/16/2005 8:28:11 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Brigadier

Oh yeah, The Washington Compost, and The Standard (owned by Sing Tao Newspaper Group and Global China Group)

Now there's a few *cough* *cough* reliable sources with *cough* *cough* unbiased views of the U.S.


75 posted on 08/16/2005 8:28:13 AM PDT by TheForceOfOne (The alternative media is our Enigma machine.)
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To: Howlin
And just so you'll know -- and I'll know that you know -- the reason Bush 41 didn't "go on to Baghdad" is because he didn't have a UN mandate to do that.

Yea . Are you saying a republican president was a slave to the UN? He could have had Saddam "eliminated" in a clean hit had he chosen.

Remember that up until that time Iraq was considered an ally

76 posted on 08/16/2005 8:30:10 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: RnMomof7

You need a history lesson.


77 posted on 08/16/2005 8:31:40 AM PDT by roses of sharon
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To: Dane
Okay the hilalry/richardson/napolitano big lie on immigration hasn't worked so you all in hillary's basement go back to the old hillary/buchanan/ cindy sheehan/fred phelps/david duke standby of 'neo-con'.

This thread is about the decision to go to war in Iraq, not about securing the southern border of the US. Do try to focus.

78 posted on 08/16/2005 8:31:47 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: RnMomof7
I'm saying that Gulf War I was a UNITED EFFORT, with a UN approving mandate, period.

He did what he was suppose to do, along with all the other countries.

Remember that up until that time Iraq was considered an ally

Yeah, until he invaded Iraq. Remember that.

79 posted on 08/16/2005 8:31:50 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: skeeter; Dane
This thread is about the decision to go to war in Iraq, not about securing the southern border of the US. Do try to focus.

I'm keeping that quote, with YOUR name on it, so I can use it on the THOUSANDS of other threads that are turned into border threads.

And yes, I'll ping you each time I see an out of place remark and am forced to use your quote.

80 posted on 08/16/2005 8:33:32 AM PDT by Howlin
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